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SIR2U
The Wonderor of Why  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Nov 17, 2006 Location: Honduras Total Topics: 21 Total Posts: 1968 |
 #1
Subject: Pirating Why are the only people being punished for pirating cds, dvds and so on the ones the share and downlod it? If it is illegal to take copies of cds and dvds, why is it that people can legally make and sell for a profit or even given away software to make copies with? Would that not be similar to aiding and abbetting? Unknown Alanic wiseman. "Ignorance and bad teeth have at least one thing in common. Keeping your mouth closed makes them both less obvious" A Zulu medicine man does not ask his patients when they first had symptoms. He asks them when they stopped singing. - Anonymous Man cannot survive except by gaining knowledge, and reason is his only means to gain it. Reason is the faculty that perceives, identifies and integrates the material provided by his senses. |
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hyena in petticoat
Cheeky Possum  Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Dec 14, 2006 Location: Here. Total Topics: 51 Total Posts: 1758 Last Blog: an old one |
#2
Maybe they just haven't figured out a foolproof way to sell their software, music, movie, etc. without enabling people the opportunity to copy. It's ironic how advantageous an advanced technology is to the pirates and how there is a lack in technology to prevent this. I do patronize piracy but I would not go on justifying the morality of it. It's simply much more practical. I think most people do not see the practicality in purchasing legally when they can have the same item of practically the same quality at a much much lower price (or even for free.) Morality and Practicality had always been battling. And not only for a few rounds have Practicality won. I am wiser for people who think I am not, and dumber for people who think I am wise. I await the opening of many doors. |
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unenlightened
modern poster  Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 4515 |
#3
SIR2U wrote: If it is illegal to take copies of cds and dvds, why is it that people can legally make and sell for a profit or even given away software to make copies with? Would that not be similar to aiding and abbetting? That would be like prosecuting arms manufacturers for aiding and abbetting murder. A good idea.  But they might protest that there are legitimate uses for these things. 
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys |
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swstephe
Tenured Poster  Usergroup: Moderators Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Location: Borneo Island ... no, really Total Topics: 30 Total Posts: 4098
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#4
While you are at it, lets throw tape recorder manufacturers, (since people are always recording music from the radio). Let's tear down Xerox for all the photocopies of copyrighted works that were copied in libraries. What about famous paintings that are sketched or traced by art students? Rubbings of bas relief images. All these were valid for "personal use", although some were done for profit. CD and DVD piracy has an interesting dimension, since the copy is often identical in quality to the original. It isn't really "stealing" since nothing is lost by the maker, except a potential lost sale. So the real determining factor ought to be how much was lost to people buying a copy. I have a lot of pirated DVDs here. There is simply nowhere for me to buy originals. I would simply not buy most of the DVDs if they were originals, (costing 10 times as much). I'm glad I get to watch the whole thing first because I've ended up with some pretty terrible movies or music collections. However, if there is something good, I might actually order some more from Amazon. They should actually pay the pirates commission for their free service, (while radio stations do work for radio -- they have kickbacks and bribes to get things played -- and someone copies it anyway). I do seem to remember a process where you people ask me questions and I give you answers, and then I ask you questions and you give me answers, and that's the way we find out things. I think I read that in a manual somewhere. -- Haywood Floyd 2010 |
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keda
Ijon Tichy  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jul 25, 2005 Location: Finland Total Topics: 40 Total Posts: 4015 |
#5
SIR2U wrote: Would that not be similar to aiding and abbetting? It isn't necessarily aiding and abbetting. There is legitimate copying of cds and dvds. All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer |
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Cadrache
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Location: AB, Canada Total Topics: 107 Total Posts: 3080 |
#6
"Copying" programs are a misnomer as well. They are technically transference programs. All they do is 'move' data from one location to another. You do realize we are not even legally allowed to think words or even about the tempo of any song that has been copywrited? Words the wiser become the name you do not know. - Some guy with a surname Blanchard. _____________________________________________ For Wit to happen; one must first play in shadows. |
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swstephe
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Moderators Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Location: Borneo Island ... no, really Total Topics: 30 Total Posts: 4098
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#7
Cadrache wrote: "Copying" programs are a misnomer as well. They are technically transference programs. All they do is 'move' data from one location to another. Are you sure? To "transfer" or "move" would mean that it wasn't in the original place any more. You make a copy, you now have two copies. Even if you download or share, the source doesn't get destroyed until it is overwritten by something else. To actually move it, you would have to put it in your pocket -- which would be shoplifting. I do seem to remember a process where you people ask me questions and I give you answers, and then I ask you questions and you give me answers, and that's the way we find out things. I think I read that in a manual somewhere. -- Haywood Floyd 2010 |
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MensRea
reluctant jurist  Usergroup: Members Joined: Apr 14, 2009 Total Topics: 0 Total Posts: 121 |
#8
You do realize we are not even legally allowed to think words or even about the tempo of any song that has been copywrited? Wow. There are some very odd perceptions of the law floating around in this thread.  The question is actually a matter of degree rather than kind. Offering a product used for piracy can be an infringement of intellectual property rights, even if the product does have legitimate legal uses as well. See the P2P cases like Grokster (probably Napster as well, but I haven't looked at that case). The Grokster folks knew their program was being used for piracy, and encouraged such use. The program certainly could be used legitimately -- I'm sure you could have found public domain works on it. The illegal use was overwhelming, however. Products like VCR's, DVD burners, etc. also have legitimate and illegitimate uses, but the balance comes out different. In general, intellectual property law tends to be implemented for social policy concerns rather than direct ethical ones. Laws are implemented to provide incentives for creativity and development, to maximize economic benefit, and to prevent harms to society. The law, here, thus tends to be utilitarian or economic in nature. It does not really focus much on deontological wrongs, such as theft. |
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Wosret
Ordinary  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Location: Nova Scotia Canada Total Topics: 17 Total Posts: 3571 |
#9
The piracy I am involved in is anime, fan-subs are the only way to get anime that has just recently aired -- Bleach is usually subbed within hours of its airing in Japan -- nothing else can offer this to me. I also download scanlated manga that is not, or simply will not be translated by any western companies at any time. I do purchase my favourite anime and manga regardless of the fact that they are pretty well useless to me raw right now. I am learning Japanese, but it will be a couple more years before I can go without translations. I know for a fact that anime and manga only gains from this, as there is no way I would otherwise buy any of them, and I know plenty of people that behave just as I do. I think that the claims of lost revenues by distributors are highly unsupported, and work on the highly dubious premise that if people weren't getting it for free, that they would be buying it, as well as assumes that because they are getting it for free, they won't buy it. They also discount word of mouth, and the advertising that is generated by piracy. If people like something, they will support it, whether they are required to, or not. Also, all because person A downloaded something for free, it doesn't mean that persons B C and D that person A won't shut up about how great it is will. Or even that person A won't buy it. Take Candy Boy, for instance, it is an ONA that they released online for free, yet the first DVD release of the compilation of the first view episodes was among the top ten selling DVDs of the month it was released, despite the fact that they were giving the episodes away for free -- I know I got my copy  .So, I don't buy that piracy is actually harmful to revenues, and I think I named at least one clear cut case where it is clearly beneficial. Edited by Wosret on May 9, 2009 - 2:57 AM Eat de grapefruit... EAT IT! |
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Incision
Dust in the wind  Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Location: The endless sea Total Topics: 25 Total Posts: 1391 |
#10
I don't buy that piracy is actually harmful to revenues, and I think I named at least one clear cut case where it is clearly beneficial. You see, it's a trick. The music industry knows it will make more money if only it gives away everything for free. (The "claims of lost revenues" are "highly unsupported.") That's because we generous souls will voluntarily patronize as much or more than we would pay, leaving us broker than ever. So fight piracy. In fact "they should actually pay [us]" for our "free service." All that word-of-mouth advertising, done out of community-mindedness and love for the art, the industry selfishly manipulates. It is a shame that in the battle between morality in practicality, "not only for a few rounds have Practicality won." The only leaf it drops goes wide, Your name not written on either side. — Robert Frost, "On Going Unnoticed"
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