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Philosophy of Technology

rossco
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Posted 04/01/08 - 05:15 PM: Subject: Philosophy of Technology	#1
Technology... It has been a huge part of my life since birth. Going through school, using computers was a daily practice. The years progressed, and technology only got better - electronics became smaller, ran faster, had larger memories - and this pattern continues. It's good sometimes, to think about how amazing technology actually is. In the past, we lived without technology, but now, it is integrated into our lives. Nearly everyone has a cellphone in one pocket, and it's likely they have an IPod in the other. More than 20% of Americans own an Apple product. At this moment, I lay with a laptop, open on my lap. At this moment, millions of others are going the same. In 1984, 8.2% of Americans owned computers, then in 2003, 61.8 of Americans owned computers (go to http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p23-208.pdf to see the graph). Now, somewhere around 76% own computers. Judging from the graph, this pattern is rising exponentially (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't actually do the math). A question I have for anyone who wishes to respond is, will people ever be so integrated and accostomed to technology that they see it as a part of nature? Will it one day be something that is completely taken for granted, something like food and water? How will that effect humans, spiritually? Will people lose their connection with the natural world? Or, will historical texts continue to enspire us and enlighten us? Any other thoughts about technology? Where it will lead us? How long will it last?
_____________________ All matter is merely energy condensed through a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. -Bill Hicks

Cadrache
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Posted 04/02/08 - 09:22 PM:	#2
I don't know how accurate that information is... If you look at the stats on page 7, and you can only have 100% of the people interviewed, then they are missing .7% of the school population. (School + no use = 99.3%) Maybe its' like my fat/water/muscle mass problem with my scales at home, except in reverse. I weigh a lowly 215-220 lbs (average) with a total division between fat, muscle and water amounts that, when added up, equal to about 120% of my total body weight.... Then there is this whole "what happens when we reach 100%?" question when people like to quote 'things are rising exponentially". http://www.computerhistory.org/internet_history/ For a point-form summary. Mmm... I'll try to answer the actual question later.

red_johniii
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Posted 04/03/08 - 09:11 PM:	#3
Technology tends to be seen, I think, as something that is divergent from nature. Strictly speaking, however, anything produced by man should ultimately be understood as natural. Some philosophers have proposed that our exponential technological development over the last 10,000 years or so may be best thought of as a symptom of a psychological change in mankind: the development in human culture, and thus within man himself, of a rigid sense of 'self' (i.e. 'advanced' self-consciousness), which opened the door for him to imagine, even concretely believe, himself to be distinct from nature. An operative functioning separately from the world around him, away from which he is somehow quarantined. If that is true, then man has 'felt' disconnected from nature for many thousands of years already. Furthermore, his seemingly out-of-control development of technology is only possible through a gap in his perception that tends to overlook the simultaneously necessary over-consumption of resources required to fund a massive, technologically-advanced (and quickly advancing) society. How long will technology last? My guess is that it will probably go on until the very end. By that I mean that, judging by current trends of technological development, increasing population, and rapidly depleting resources, we will probably continue our mad race forward until we literally begin to run out of the basic materials we need to produce our ever-changing devices. Barring any major natural catastrophe (such as an asteroid) or self-destruction (via nukes, of course), I regretfully foresee mankind, at large, heading toward the same doom that the islanders of Rapa Nui, or Easter Island, suffered. It would seem that the Easter Islanders must have known that the forests on their island were dwindling to be mere scattered groves, but what could they do at that point? On a 64-square mile island, around the year 1000 AD, there were 20,000 people that needed wood for fires and building...but most importantly...for constructing boats to fish or travel. Everything must've seemed fine until, one by one, families or tribes wore their old boats out and, upon attempting to make another, found that every last tree was gone. They were now trapped on their island, with no wood to make boats and thus no way to leave. The years after the last tree was felled must've been tragic on an unimaginable scale. Only about 500 years later, when the Europeans arrived at the grassy, treeless island, the population had been reduced from 20,000 to just about 1,500. Unfortunately, we may be headed toward the same fate on a much larger scale.

Caldwell
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Posted 04/04/08 - 02:11 AM:	#4
rossco wrote: A question I have for anyone who wishes to respond is, will people ever be so integrated and accostomed to technology that they see it as a part of nature? Will it one day be something that is completely taken for granted, something like food and water? How will that effect humans, spiritually? Will people lose their connection with the natural world? The answer is "no" to all the questions above, my best guess. I read a few sci-fi stories, and what strikes me is how these writings tend to under-calculate the time it takes for humans to have a fully-automated kitchen, if at all. (as an example): In 2010, all you need to do is get up in the morning and sit down in your breakfast table. Then coffee, eggs, and buttered toast will be delivered to be by a robotic arm that hangs on the ceiling above your sink and stove. Food would be cooked faster than microwave. Pellets would expand into a complete meal. And there'd be a talking house assistant on the screen plastered on your wall to inform you of your appointments. I think there will always be aspects of lives that will never be fully techonologized. Cooking, for instance, will always be the conventional way...you know, you cook from scratch, using plants grown in soil, and using fire and pots. Music will always be like the Three Tenors, with real people playing instruments to produce sounds in an orchestra, and real singers singing, not coming from an all-around keyboard that has all the canned sounds you need. I listened to the sound of the group Earth, Wind, and Fire singing the song "Reasons" and at the end of the song the singer mentions the "horn" -- that was a real horn played by a real musician, and a song sang by a real singer. Giving birth will still be the "natural" way, the baby grown inside a human womb, and at delivery time, allowing it to pass through the birth canal, or a c. We like our eggs still the old-fashioned way -- we get them from the chickens, or ducks, and we crack the shell to release the goody inside. Water will always be water.
_____________________ So, you've finally figured out how reality works. Have a glass of muriatic acid, everyone.

son of Thanatos
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Posted 04/05/08 - 08:39 AM:	#5
I see, or at least believe i see what Caldwell is saying, Technology will never be a necessity as is the case with food and water. But what if we rely on technology for our social needs? Is it a possibility to be so interconnected with technology that we become socially addicted to technology as a culture, like we are addicted to the automobile as a culture now?

unenlightened
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Posted 04/05/08 - 09:54 AM:	#6
It already happened a long time ago. Everyone, almost, already believes that money, nationality, property, religion, science and all sorts of man-made stuff is not only part of the natural order but is more real and more important than life itself - ie worth dying and killing for. It's got to the extreme now that the tv is not selling you stuff at all any more, it's selling you yourself - "because you're worth it." How much more identified with technology can you get?
_____________________ The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/05/08 - 12:45 PM:	#7
Wow. If you are interested in the technology and the ever-increasing rate it is moving forward at, you should research the Technological Singularity. There is a hypothesized date for when humans will be able reverse-engineer the brain, becoming able to create a human-level AI. Most predictions fall within the late 2020s, and after we have one that is even slightly more intelligent than the most intelligent human, the rate of increasing intelligence will explode towards infinity. This creates many issues to consider, and will make people wonder what it really means to be human. There is a somewhat-okay wikipedia article dedicated to this page, but if you're looking for more interesting ones, you might want to try other sources. I also created a thread about this in the general philosophy section, but it didn't really get anywhere.

Cadrache
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Posted 04/05/08 - 02:29 PM:	#8
Well now, I'm gonna respond, since I have my answer. How often do people wear clothing? How about the use of the door? Some of the greatest technological discoveries. Shelter. Taken for granted? Most likely the answer would be yes, if you take the generalist view. There being many homeless people, nudists and others; then the individualistic answer would be dependent partly upon external forces like cold winters, or internal societal roles of the tribe culture that helps proclaim who is on top. Now, I'm not sure if this thread has continued my thinking, or if this next part is from some previous thought years ago, only that it is part of my response. If you take the ying and yang scenerio and the whole balance thing, then one may question if technological advance creates a superiority in a specific area. For instance shelter allowing people to live in colder climates, the positive. If nature balances itself, then what happens otherwise? What of the huge cities of today? Like water in pipes. All this water stored and inaccessible from natures cycle, possibly being a direct cause to the increase in desert lands.

Caldwell
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Posted 04/05/08 - 04:35 PM:	#9
I agree with the posts above. I also wonder if the question can be Is there anything left in humans that isn't modernized using technology? I think we have taken for granted that everything has technology in it. What aspect of our life that has enjoyed freedom from mechanization, enhancement, and advancement?
_____________________ So, you've finally figured out how reality works. Have a glass of muriatic acid, everyone.

Tobias
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Posted 04/06/08 - 06:53 AM:	#10
Perhaps our inventing technology is a way for nature to continue its existence? There is always a dychotomy implied between nature and culture or technology. But we are natural as well so nature spawned technology. Today the question is couched in terms of 'freedom from technology'. In a sense asking that question is revolutionary because we always asked ourselves how to be free from nature. The natural world is hard, floods, winters, cold, nasty scary big creatures. We needed technology to be free. In a sense I am an old fashioned modernist. I still believe technology despite its totalising and diciplining force still allows us so much freedom, much more than without it. The fear is that we ourselves will be 'technologised' lets say. But as you already indicated many realms will not be technological, but the area of 'natural' freedom or bondage. Family, love friendship, a view of yourself. Those things technology can't touch, only expand. Because it frees us from having our minds preoccupied with naked survival. regards Tobi
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Im tiefen, tiefen Wald Da steht ein Krankenhaus, Darin tauscht ein kleiner Doktor Liebenden die Herzen aus." Samsas Traum - Stromausfall im Herzpital

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/06/08 - 09:51 AM:	#11
Tobias wrote: Perhaps our inventing technology is a way for nature to continue its existence? There is always a dychotomy implied between nature and culture or technology. But we are natural as well so nature spawned technology. Today the question is couched in terms of 'freedom from technology'. In a sense asking that question is revolutionary because we always asked ourselves how to be free from nature. The natural world is hard, floods, winters, cold, nasty scary big creatures. We needed technology to be free. In a sense I am an old fashioned modernist. I still believe technology despite its totalising and diciplining force still allows us so much freedom, much more than without it. The fear is that we ourselves will be 'technologised' lets say. But as you already indicated many realms will not be technological, but the area of 'natural' freedom or bondage. Family, love friendship, a view of yourself. Those things technology can't touch, only expand. Because it frees us from having our minds preoccupied with naked survival. regards Tobi Technology will continue to develop until we have the ability of enhancing our own minds. If we could become only slighty more intelligent, that would open up a broad array of new possibilities in future development. After such a breakthrough, the rate of increase in human intelligence will have a rate of increase on itself as well. In the upcoming decades,we will have to rethink what it really means to be human and discern between machine and man, if there is any difference. This is the transhumanist manifesto.

Tobias
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Posted 04/06/08 - 12:49 PM:	#12
How do you know that being slightly more intelligent will open up a new range of possibilities? We are not more intelligent yet so in no position to make such claims.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Im tiefen, tiefen Wald Da steht ein Krankenhaus, Darin tauscht ein kleiner Doktor Liebenden die Herzen aus." Samsas Traum - Stromausfall im Herzpital

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/06/08 - 02:39 PM:	#13
Tobias wrote: How do you know that being slightly more intelligent will open up a new range of possibilities? We are not more intelligent yet so in no position to make such claims. Fish -> Dog -> Ape -> Man -> ? Other than that, what do you think intelligence is for?

rossco
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Posted 04/06/08 - 02:56 PM:	#14
TheArchitect wrote: Tobias wrote: How do you know that being slightly more intelligent will open up a new range of possibilities? We are not more intelligent yet so in no position to make such claims. Fish -> Dog -> Ape -> Man -> ? Other than that, what do you think intelligence is for? I don't believe there will be an new range of possibilities open for us. There will just be more convenience for the human being. In the end, all we want is an easy, comfortable life for as many people possible. Can intelligence really go beyond the intelligence of man? Have people gotten any smarter over the past ten thousand years, or have things only gotten more convenient?
_____________________ All matter is merely energy condensed through a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. -Bill Hicks

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/06/08 - 08:10 PM:	#15
Dogs probably think that nothing can get more convenient than what is possible at their current intelligence level. We humans think we're some kind of special being, but we are just another type of animal. And could you possibly elaborate more on your usage of the word "convenience"? I think we might be talking about the same thing here.

Tobias
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 04/07/08 - 01:54 AM:	#16
Intelligence is not 'for' anything. It is a measure how well we solve problems.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Im tiefen, tiefen Wald Da steht ein Krankenhaus, Darin tauscht ein kleiner Doktor Liebenden die Herzen aus." Samsas Traum - Stromausfall im Herzpital

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/07/08 - 03:36 PM:	#17
Tobias wrote: Intelligence is not 'for' anything. It is a measure how well we solve problems. No, that wasn't my point. Humans have the capability to observe "higher-ordered" patterns than dogs and apes do. Then is it not logical that some superhuman intelligence will be able to notice things that humans have no ability to? A 'superhuman intelligence' is not 'superintelligent' if it can't do that.

PontificatingChauncy
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Posted 04/07/08 - 07:58 PM:	#18
First off, intelligence is measured as a statistical mean: animals fall somewhere on the lower quarter of the mean (there's a gorilla who scored an IQ of 90) and people represent the middle half of the spectrum (50-150) so beyond human intelligence would be a measurable score above 150 or so. Also, what I believe might be helpful is to consider using the standard of environmentation: that is to say that your house, for example, is technically a single object, but over time most people have come to consider a house its own environment. If you use this standard we may already be there: according to one study a majority of children do not think of the internet as a thing. Rather the internet is a place to which all individual computers are mearly windows. As a child of the 90's I remember something similar about television.
_____________________ The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao. That thing is a chauncy

tomv
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Posted 04/09/08 - 08:16 AM:	#19
The whole issue of technology becoming a part of our lives is an interesting one. I would like however to take a slightly different take on it. I would like to ignore the obvious 'perks' of technology of playing games, watching movies, listening to music etc. I have actually, through a lot of people watching, found that technology which has been designed to make our lives easier has actually spoilt us as made us lazier, and this is particulary true for the younger generation. I would like to use the example of lifts/escalators vs stairs. The amount of times I have seen fully able bodied people using lifts is beyond count. I take care of disabled people for a living and for people with profound disablities, taking the stairs is just not an option, so we use the lift together. Now I don't care when an elderly person is wanting to use the lift ahead of us, I'll happily wait, but so many times do I see school-aged kids pushing their way to the front of the queue to use the lift when there are stairs right next to us. Sadly this is not a one-time occurence. In that sense, I do genuinely believe that technology has made us lazier. Cars have made us fatter. I'm one of the few people that rides their bike to work as opposed to driving and I'm one of the few that arrives with energy at the workplace. The car drivers all still look like they're asleep because the car just does not stimulate them physically. There are many examples like this around us, just look out for them in your life. After a while, you will realise that we have actually reached a point where we take technology for granted, have made it too much a part of our lives where we have come to ignore our natural human functions. I truly believe that technology should have its restrictions.
_____________________ "The door is open, the road transformed. The exit code to civilisation is hacked beyond despair, chased by the moon toward the freeing sun, on our journey to light. This is an open plea to the beautiful insanity of your hearts. It is time to consummate the kiss of oblivion into the obsidian of love!" - Serj Tankian

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/10/08 - 06:46 PM:	#20
tomv wrote: There are many examples like this around us, just look out for them in your life. After a while, you will realise that we have actually reached a point where we take technology for granted, have made it too much a part of our lives where we have come to ignore our natural human functions. I truly believe that technology should have its restrictions. I just can't imagine the negative consequences that would stem from such 'restrictions,' if those restrictions are even possible to implement in the first place.

Acephale
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Posted 04/24/08 - 10:38 PM:	#21
With reference to the philosophy of Technology you can't think mind you have to think hand. You have to think hand because the hand comes with the feet. (Note the evolution posted prior: Fish, Dog, Ape, Man. In this evolution there is an evolution of bone structure, From strict horizontal development (the fish) to a complete vertical development (the man)). The feet allow Man to stand, which frees the hand to grasp. The hand grasp's before the mind creates. In the hand's grasping comes the ability to create, technics. This grasping is a process of externalization, which comes to create the world. In thinking about technology you have to get out of the classic ontology of Plato and Aristotle which uses a stable world. A world that is existed in, where matter and time flow through. Shift to Heidegger, being at hand. In this shift there is no natural way of being. What there is a system that has some stability that grows off of itself. A conflict between Heraclitus and Parmenides, movement and no movement. The system grows until it can't. We reside in the system. Our being completly wrapped up in it, in systems within the systems. Bataille's Economy. Technology is before culture, so before "man." "man" uses technology as a memory system. Technology provides a history. Using technology provides a history. A somewhere, something, that can be returned to, stability in the flux. For this reason we can't see one time more advance than another, since each moment, founded by technology has a unique richness. Discussions of meno and phaedrus fit well in this paragraph. What is the issue today is the system, gestell (enframing), and how its connected, and what is needed to connect it. So, resource management, and the ability (speed) to move resources about. Which does all sorts of nasty things in relation to the conception of the world, the event, and being in the world with other. The world picture getting hazzy by news reports, and types of transportation. The event gets lost in simulacra due to inabilities to react. being in the world with others falls apart as we become isolated as the passenger, never seeing our neighbors, or others ever again.

jnuzzo
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Posted 04/25/08 - 01:22 AM:	#22
Nature IS technology based upon the sheer definition of the term as you use it ... all natural process as we understand it is nothing more than materials forming a sequence of operation, or non-operation. Human created technologies are nothing more than human reformation of natural technologies and so on so forth until everything is technology of some sort. The term "natural" in itself denotes the existence of anything unnatural unless a time frame or specific point of reference is coincided with it. As in: you have to create a definition of natural (or even technology) to use the term in such a way. I.E. It is natural for John to like chocolate while in situation X Therefore, it is unnatural for John to not like chocolate while in situation X. I think anyways? I think I know what you mean, but to get a defined answer there needs to be defined terminology. Edited by jdrw on 04/29/08 - 11:29 AM. Reason: cap first letter of sentences

Reformed Nihilist
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Posted 04/25/08 - 09:11 AM:	#23
rossco wrote: A question I have for anyone who wishes to respond is, will people ever be so integrated and accostomed to technology that they see it as a part of nature? It's already here. If I feel an itch on my back, it seems entirely natural to grab something to scratch my back with. That is tool using, and it is the most basic form of technology. People feel relatively more or less comfortable with various technologies depending on their exposure, understanding of the technology and upbringing. One might say that going to the doctor is the natural thing to do when ill, shooting (with a gun) someone attacking you (or your children, or whatever) is the natural response. Will it one day be something that is completely taken for granted, something like food and water? See above. For that matter, food has been a product of technology for most of our history as a species. "Those new fangled pointy sticks are so useful Marge! You can spear a boar and put a hole in the ground to plant your seeds too!". How will that effect humans, spiritually? I'm not quite sure what a spiritual effect is, but emotionally, we tend to adjust to all kinds of things and carry on as if it were ordinary, because it has actualy become ordinary. We stil feel more or less the same drive and eelings that we always have, but we are just more comfortable and live longer. Will people lose their connection with the natural world? It depends what "the natural world" is supposed to be. Affluent people spend all sorts of money to go lie on the beach or swim in the ocean, or hunt game in Africa, or climb a mountain. Or, will historical texts continue to enspire us and enlighten us? This seems like a non-sequitur to me. Texts are a product of technology, and quite a significant one too. Ask any historian about the Guttenberg press. Written language is one of the escalading factors in the growth of technology. Any other thoughts about technology? Where it will lead us? How long will it last? Where it will lead is a matter of speculation, beyong the most obvious indicators. We're not very good at predicting big and complex changes in the world (otherwise the weatherman would always be right and I'd make a mint on the stock market). How long will it last? I'd guess about as long as our species does.
_____________________ Vivian Jaffe: Have you ever transcended space and time? Albert Markovski: Yes... No... Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about. I Heart Huckabees (2004)

Tobias
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Posted 04/29/08 - 05:59 AM:	#24
No, that wasn't my point. Humans have the capability to observe "higher-ordered" patterns than dogs and apes do. Then is it not logical that some superhuman intelligence will be able to notice things that humans have no ability to? A 'superhuman intelligence' is not 'superintelligent' if it can't do that. Yes, but maybe that super intelligence would dismiss that term out of hand. If we knew what a superintelligence would think of the term intelligence, we would be that very superintelligence.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Im tiefen, tiefen Wald Da steht ein Krankenhaus, Darin tauscht ein kleiner Doktor Liebenden die Herzen aus." Samsas Traum - Stromausfall im Herzpital

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