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Openmindedness - good thing or bad thing?

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Openmindedness - good thing or bad thing?
Maxvilly
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Posted 07/05/09 - 01:17 PM:
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#41
ducttape wrote:

"It doesn't matter if it's true or not, its more of an exercise in critical thinking."
I believe he is somehow right, as this is not as far fetched as the "water to snow" girl as it is easy to put to if it's myth.

I am indeed biased in this field as well, as I have my own research made, which told me the opposite. On top of this, I can't know for certain what these families and underground circles have in common.

I haven't yet rid the possibility that "human beings" other than the president are in charge in the white house and control power, economies, and wall street.

It's not as far fetched as Aliens, Zombies, Ghosts or the "Water snow" etc.


Edited by Maxvilly on 07/05/09 - 01:33 PM

I had details here, ones.
Maxvilly
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Posted 07/05/09 - 01:27 PM:
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#42
123savethewhales wrote:
It would only be an opposite if there are something to lose in believing in the superstition,
Sanity. It's good to have in an insane world, full of ludicrous claims and sales tactics?nod

I had details here, ones.
Crackers
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Posted 07/05/09 - 01:31 PM:
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#43

Complete open-mindedness and complete close-mindedness are inadvisable.


 


 


Nietzsche wrote:
When a philosopher today gives us to understand that he is not a skeptic—I hope the foregoing account of the objective spirit has brought this out?—all the world is offended to hear it; thereafter he is regarded with a certain dread, there is so much one would like to ask him ...


indeed, among timid listeners, of whom there are nowadays a very great number, he is henceforth considered dangerous. It is as if, in his rejection of skepticism, they seemed to hear some evil, menacing sound from afar, as if some new explosive were being tested somewhere, a dynamite of the spirit, perhaps a newly discovered Russian nihiline [Nihilin, a play on Anilin (aniline, a posionous chemical)], a pessimism bonae voluntatis [of good will] which does not merely say No, will No, but—dreadful thought! does No.


Against this kind of “good will”—a will to the actual active denial of life—there is today confessedly no better sedative and soporific than skepticism, the gentle, gracious, lulling poppy skepticism; and even Hamlet is prescribed by the doctors of our time against the “spirit” and its noises under the ground. “Are our ears not already filled with nasty sounds?” says the skeptic as a friend of sleep and almost as a kind of security police: “this subterranean No is terrible! Be quiet, you pessimistic moles!”


For the skeptic, that delicate creature, is all too easily frightened; his conscience is schooled to wince at every No, indeed even at a hard decisive Yes, and to sense something like a sting. Yes! and No!—that is to him contrary to morality; on the other hand, he likes his virtue to enjoy a noble continence, perhaps by saying after Montaigne “What do I know?” [“Que sais-je?”: the motto of the Essays (1580) of Michel de Montaigne (1533-92)]


Or after Socrates: “I know that I know nothing.”


Or: “Here I do not trust myself, here no door stands open to me.”


Or: “If it did stand open, why go straight in?”


Or: “What is the point of hasty hypotheses?


To make no hypothesis at all could well be a part of good taste. Do you absolutely have to go straightening out what is crooked? Absolutely have to stop up every hole with oakum? Is there not plenty of time? Does time not have time? Oh you rogues, are you unable to wait? Uncertainty too has its charms, the sphinx too is a Circe, Circe too was a philosopher.”


— Thus does a skeptic console himself; and it is true he stands in need of some consolation. For skepticism is the most spiritual expression of a certain complex physiological condition called in ordinary language nervous debility and sickliness; it arises whenever races or classes long separated from one another are decisively and suddenly crossed. In the new generation, which has as it were inherited varying standards and values in its blood, all is unrest, disorder, doubt, experiment; the most vital forces have a retarding effect, the virtues themselves will not let one another grow and become strong, equilibrium, center of balance, upright certainty are lacking in body and soul.


But that which becomes most profoundly sick and degenerates in such hybrids is the will: they no longer have any conception of independence of decision, of the valiant feeling of pleasure in willing—even in their dreams they doubt the “freedom of the will.” Our Europe of today, the scene of a senselessly sudden attempt at radical class—and consequently race-mixture, is as a result skeptical from top to bottom, now with that agile skepticism which springs impatiently and greedily from branch to branch, now gloomily like a cloud overcharged with question marks and often sick to death of its will! Paralysis of will: where does one not find this cripple sitting today! And frequently so dressed up! How seductively dressed up! There is the loveliest false finery available for this disease; and that most of that which appears in the shop windows today as “objectivity,” “scientificality,” “l’art pour l’art,” “pure will-less knowledge” is merely skepticism and will-paralysis dressed up—for this diagnosis of the European sickness I am willing to go bail.


[...]



Complete skepticism is will paralysis: when one rejects all knowledge they know not what to do with themselves, they doubt even the worth of doing anything.

Maxvilly
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Posted 07/05/09 - 02:13 PM:
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#44
ducttape wrote:
Perhaps I are missing out on a lot of knowledge because we are turned off by ignorant assumptions.
As with anything we have taught ourself, it's hard to let go of emotions attached towards something.

As Humans we try to believe, there have to be a possibility of ghosts, we get unncertain.

It's because we have less knowledge of how nature is constructered.

I was "super" superficious myself, just one year back in to time.

Today I can watch ghost hunting series and never
have any emotions attached towards the situations.

I attached feelings towards the unknown, the things not
be seen. I was afraid to miss out on something yet
to be seen.

Finally I settle with Evolution, instead of ghosts, gods and the
spirit worlds.

But, it took me quite a long time of research to get all my pieces together.

If we are uncertain, start to study languages, structure of advertising and
psychology.

Especially pyschology could let us live with the unkown as the unkown.
As we truly can through real knowledge" influence people on a mass scale.

I guess that seemed impossible to me at one point, I had no ideas on
how I could become an influence in history. Becuase it's not "me" as
we read of these great accomplishment made by Einstein, to Newton in School.

While there I put myself in to dark mass, as I believed that acclaiming big things
during ones life was just like picking the right lottery numbers.

I was mistaken. smiling face

Edited by Maxvilly on 07/05/09 - 02:21 PM

I had details here, ones.
Minyun
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Posted 07/06/09 - 04:54 AM:
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#45
Excellent topic!

May I use a small thought experiment:

A man, grows up with certain views and ideas, he tries to keep an open mind. When he was 30 he had heard about a great phenom (from his current girlfriend), whereby another man could project light and heat out of his hands. All of it, like I say, was what he had heard. Because our society today has very little trust for each others words, he automatically abandoned the idea but because he was intelligent enough perhaps he researched it, and then through this evidence abandoned the idea. The man and the girlfriend had a huge fight over who was right and who was wrong, the relationship deteriorated from then on. The man lost all hope/love in this woman.

The man continued to 'grow', he now worked as an executive in a law firm, he was 50 when he finally married. He married a woman who in her youth practiced Reiki, at the time it was not making much money so she decided to go into nursing instead. On the night of thier honeymoon, she said to her husband "let me show you what I can do" as she held out her hand it slowly began to glow a whitish colour. It was a cold night and the man could feel the heat.

His mind raced, back to when he was 30 and when his girlfriend had told him about this story and how he had not believed her. His mind recounted the trauma. What else had he not been open too? A multitude of questions arose in his mind, had he wasted this last 20 years of his life? Had he wasted the entirety of his life?

I am not saying that you should accept everything as true, but what we should accept is that other people have thier own truths, which may be completely oblivious to you because you require the evidence to prove it, which they cannot provide. Sometimes, we can't have evidence. I will provide you with the problem of existence, if, you require evidence that is.

If I say something that is against your world view, are you so wise that you can (research it) count all of knowledge to disprove it?

I conclude by saying that if this truth does no harm to you, then you should accept it. This requires looking past your own desires, letting go of emotional tendencies to be right. Letting go of greed.

Edited by Minyun on 07/06/09 - 05:03 AM
Crackers
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Posted 07/06/09 - 05:20 AM:
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#46



Minyun wrote:




His mind raced, back to when he was 30 and when his girlfriend had told him about this story and how he had not believed her. His mind recounted the trauma. What else had he not been open too? A multitude of questions arose in his mind, had he wasted this last 20 years of his life? Had he wasted the entirety of his life?


No. He had no reason to believe that his past girlfriend was correct and was right in assuming she wasn't: she didn't provide enough evidence. He didn't "waste his life", just because one unecessary break-up happens is not to say that his entire life has been a waste: if he didn't break-up with her, who knows, she might have killed him, he might not have ever got a good job etc.



I am not saying that you should accept everything as true, but what we should accept is that other people have thier own truths, which may be completely oblivious to you because you require the evidence to prove it, which they cannot provide.


If they cannot provide evidence, or at least point to where I can find the evidence myself, then it is reasonable to reject what ever their saying or simply not immediately accept what they say as true. What other people call "their truths" might be useless to you. Their epistemology could be completely different. For example, when a paranormalists talks about their truths I am right to take no interest; what they call "true" is not what I call "true."


Sometimes, we can't have evidence. I will provide you with the problem of existence, if, you require evidence that is.


All decent knowledge is backed up by evidence. Sometimes it might be sufficient to base something on logic and intuition alone. It's also necessary to have a few axioms, like: "I exist, the Universe exists, my senses are reliable" etc.

 


I conclude by saying that if this truth does no harm to you, then you should accept it.


You should probably even accept it even if it does harm you: it might harm you at first but truth is, perhaps always, better than ignorance because it is something you can use to your advantage. One should take delight in the fact that a part of their ignorance has dissipated. If your reality is built on a lie and you become aware of this, well then you can start building a reality based on the truth. Sure, the collapse of the old reality might have been a shock but it's all for the best. The only people who don't want to know the truth are the people who are afraid of it.


This requires looking past your own desires, letting go of emotional tendencies to be right. Letting go of greed.


"Stop being ignorant", in other words. You don't have to stop being greedy, in fact greed is probably a good thing; greedy for the truth.

Minyun
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Posted 07/06/09 - 06:40 AM:
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#47
"Stop being ignorant", in other words. You don't have to stop being greedy, in fact greed is probably a good thing; greedy for the truth.


Ignorant, no. Naive, yes.

Greedy for the truth is correct. You seem to think that the truth is something? It is the something you want, and you will divide everything up into right and wrong until you have found this elusive truth?

What if you do not find the truth? What have you created in your wake? You have created a society of which half you trust and the other half you do not trust. Which then turns out, you only really look at half of the big picture, the other half you discard.

And you think this is the way it should be?

Edited by Minyun on 07/06/09 - 07:21 AM
Minyun
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Posted 07/06/09 - 07:05 AM:
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#48
Once you have achieved openness perfection will follow. Without openness we are doomed to failure. The first step in this chain is opening your mind.

Absolute, or ultimate, bodhicitta, which refers to the wisdom of shunyata (śunyatā, a Sanskrit term often translated as "emptiness", though the alternatives "openness" or "spaciousness" probably convey the idea better to Westerners). The concept of śunyatā in Buddhist thought does not refer simply to nothingness, but to freedom from attachments (particularly attachment to the idea of a static or essential self) and from fixed ideas about the world and how it should be.
Minyun
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Posted 07/06/09 - 07:14 AM:
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#49
If they cannot provide evidence, or at least point to where I can find the evidence myself, then it is reasonable to reject what ever their saying or simply not immediately accept what they say as true. What other people call "their truths" might be useless to you. Their epistemology could be completely different. For example, when a paranormalists talks about their truths I am right to take no interest; what they call "true" is not what I call "true."


You define truth by having a proof which you weigh up against certain characteristics in your mind, in terms of wether the proof is justified or not. Where do these characteristics come from? Your childhood, perhaps your upbringing? Or maybe these characteristics come from some amature reasearch you have conducted? Is this then the truth?

There is no truth, except the one living within yourself. It is never too late to change your mind.

Edited by Minyun on 07/06/09 - 07:23 AM
jtoma
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Posted 07/06/09 - 11:22 AM:
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#50
Crackers wrote:
You don't have to stop being greedy, in fact greed is probably a good thing; greedy for the truth.


But in order to be greedy for truth do you always have to be greedy for evidence? For example, my mother calls and tells me that she will pick up my sister from work. Do I require that my mother cite past evidence of her following her word in cases of picking people up? I think I can use the truth of her message to drive home without getting my sister, knowing that she will be picked up.

Further, Crackers, is skepticism open-mindedness or close-mindedness? Requiring evidence is not an antidote for skepticism. Sometimes, to be open-minded toward useful truths, evidence is not needed to dispel skepticism; only the utility of accepting a truth is required. Being open-minded is being unbiased about the truths you accept and being skeptical is looking for reasons to dismiss truths. One can be neither completely unbiased nor completely skeptical. The skeptic's 'reasons' to dismiss truth are the result of biased experience. The bias of perception affects evidence acquisition:
Minyun wrote:
You define truth by having a proof which you weigh up against certain characteristics in your mind, in terms of wether the proof is justified or not. Where do these characteristics come from? Your childhood, perhaps your upbringing?
.


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