Online Perception of Gender: Philosophy Forums

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Online Perception of Gender
Real or Actor(tress)?

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Online Perception of Gender

Landlady
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Posted 11/06/09 - 06:44 PM: Subject: Online Perception of Gender	#1
I think there is a difference in way men and women perceive genders. The way a man perceives a woman is not the same as the way a woman (me, for example) would perceive another woman. Likewise, a woman’s idea of what a man is might not be exactly what a man’s own idea is of himself as a man. I know that some men adopt a female persona in virtual reality in order to get in touch with their feminine side, maybe to explore the role of the other gender and learn about it more, or maybe for some other reason. The thing that I notice (I am pretty confident in this assumption, though I don’t have a definite proof), is that the male-created female character is often exaggerated to one side and often lacks a dimension that real women have. Sometimes she is either way too stereotypical, or old-fashioned, or superficial, or comes out as too “perfect/ideal” (what I would call a Pygmalion woman). A real online woman to me would appear normal, neither too feminine, nor too masculine (but would express both sides), and relating to her would feel just like relating to another woman, even when she is antagonistic and unpleasant. I was wondering, is this difference in perception true for men, as well? Can you guys sense a difference between a real woman and a guy-created woman in cyberspace? I would also like to know if other girls (especially Caldwell or Hyena) here had similar experiences in cyberspace, and maybe feel the same way, or if I’m just imagining things. Also, would you guys be able to identify a woman-created man character? Say, if I were to create a male character would you be able to find it and say “this character sounds like a woman pretending to be a man”?
There is time to laugh and there is time not to laugh, and this is not one of them. - Insp. Clouseau. Each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible. - Frankl.

Wosret
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Posted 11/06/09 - 07:39 PM:	#2
No, not often. I can rarely tell whether someone is a male or a female unless they explicitly say, and I will refrain from assuming either until they themselves have qualified. After they have, I have no real reason to doubt them unless they start giving me some. That being said, I have a staff member on my website that claims to be female that I'm fairly confident is not, but my website is the type that is populated by a vast majority of "females" -- so in this context I find myself looking for excuses to doubt, as they all have motive to be playing pretend. Though, maybe I'm just too paranoid as well.
"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie. "I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.

hyena in petticoat
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Posted 11/06/09 - 08:15 PM:	#3
Like Wosret, I can rarely tell the gender of the people I talk to online unless they said their sex themselves or made remarks which explicitly indicate their gender (as with Yahadreas' having lots of chicks as he often claims.) Though of course, I am often lead to conclusion by my personal biases. Sometimes I unconsciously assign gender based on how the user name appears to me. I used to think Cadrache is a female for instance (for some unknown reasons.) I can't exactly pin point what brings about these tendency to have such an unfounded" impression. I found myself unable to determine whether people are pretending (unless it's very obvious) because I'm an inherently naive and trusting person. (Seriously! ) I think there is a difference in way men and women perceive genders. The way a man perceives a woman is not the same as the way a woman (me, for example) would perceive another woman. Likewise, a woman’s idea of what a man is might not be exactly what a man’s own idea is of himself as a man. I'd agree. When either of these two sexes try to get a better of grasp of the other opposite sex, it seems to fail in accuracy perhaps because these are all based on what is perceived. Generally speaking, people can be in other people's shoes. But that's all they can do. Wear it. It's not possible to duplicate the experience of the owner when he/she wears it themselves because it's impossible to duplicate the experiences that makes them the kind of person that they are. Okay... I'm getting a bit long winded.
I need to get acquainted with sanity. Rantings, rantings and more rantings. Seriously.

wuliheron
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Posted 11/06/09 - 08:24 PM:	#4
You might find the book, "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" interesting. In general the author argues that men are more interested in what works, while women are more interested in fairness. According to the author in most cultures men are dominant and, thus, women are forced to rely on arguments of fairness in order to have a say in things. Also, the traditional role of women in such societies is that of caregivers and childrearing. Hence, the greater need to deal more pointedly with issues of fairness rather than simply what works. For the most part I cannot tell whether I am talking to a man or woman online, no doubt this is largely because most of the places I hang out at are overwhelmingly frequented by men. The minority of women who hang out there are usually quit adept at talking to men in their own idiom.

Sashianova
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Posted 11/06/09 - 08:31 PM:	#5
Having mostly participated on jazz and music forums, the vast majority of people I've interacted with on chat boards are males. The few women in that context tend to stand out like sore thumbs, though not always. Some women have chosen to limit the content of their posts to relevant information about the music, so unless privy to that info through personal interaction in private messages or something, how would one know?

Cadrache
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Posted 11/06/09 - 08:53 PM:	#6
Maybe it is that Homosexual aspect Hyena? Or that my moral viewpoint and 'history' seems to imply that nobody will listen unless I take a dimunitive stance? Hmm.... probably 'nix that thought. (throw it away.) Right now I am thinking about the fallacy "Argument from authority." and applying that to what is percieved as traditional roles for genders. Edited by Cadrache on 11/06/09 - 09:02 PM
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Caldwell
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Posted 11/07/09 - 03:03 AM:	#7
Hi Landlady, long time no see. I cannot tell whether I'm talking to a woman or a man, or reading a woman's or a man's posts/comments in cyberspace. I am not focused on that aspect for the most part of my interaction. For humorous effect and facetious remarks, I find both men and women to be funny (if I happen to know for sure their gender). If someone (in cyberspace) tells me she is a woman, I am not in the position to protest or to doubt. Likewise, if someone thinks I am a man, I cannot, and do not, go out of my way to insist that I am not. It is their perception of me, no harm done and no hard feelings. As far as interaction, I think the males have a lot of advantage because they can rant, they can drop one-liners, and they can be too political without much ramification. (er, this is what I believe, I may be wrong). Even their avatars can be funny.

Mako
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Posted 11/07/09 - 06:28 AM:	#8
I would 'like' to believe, as a leftie-liberal, that in philosophical discussions, gender can be discounted as it pertains to the 'form' of someone's argument/explanation. Obviously gender, as an influencing factor in personal development and outlook, plays a distinct role and may indeed influence the direction of one's philosophical path as well as the issues upon which an individual might focus; in other words, gender can and does influence the content of someone's philosophy/values, but it need not do so. When I read one of my favourite contemporary philosophers, Christine Korsgaard, there's nothing which I can discern in her style and form of argumentation/presentation which would inform me as to whether she's male or female. Feminist philosophy can be argued by men as well as women, though women will naturally bring to the tabl some added content, in the form of 'gender experience.' As far as online discussions go, I usually can't tell, though I think once the 'gender-cat is out of the bag,' perhaps I become more sensitized to noticing those little (or not so little) gender clues, which I might not have notice had the poster not announced his/her gender/sex.
"To alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." ~ Homer Simpson

Laic
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 11/07/09 - 07:27 PM:	#9
For the last three years I've worked with trans and gender questioning persons in group settings in an attempt to decipher gender. I think rationally that there is actually no difference in the groundwork of a male or a female mind. Though we are raised and conditioned in certain ways our upbringings and values are what determine if we are able to play cross gender roles on an open arena so wide as the internet. Females and males in different areas act differently. Having lived in a major urban center and recently moving to a small town I've noticed women walk behind men here. Still. A man who is sexist (whether it is active or passive due to upbringing) will portray a woman as he sees a woman online. A man who has strong female desires will behave as an "ideal" woman would. Attempting to embody as many feminine traits as he can so that he may be seen as undoubtedly female. I call it overkill, personally. I used to have a transwoman friend down south who found she was facing a lot of discrimination. She was wearing very female clothing, well colors at least. Pinks sweaters and long skirts. As soon as she put on a hoodie and a pair of cargo shorts she really looked like a real female. She had the breasts, the hips and the voice from her medical transition. All that needed to be done was a severe re-think on the wardrobe. A pixie cut instead of uncut long hair over a receding hairline and there you have it! Anyone who can abandon the traditional stereotypes of male and female can be either. Online or in person. It's so very hard to tell. Our ideas of gender in modern society are off to be polite. Even in the recent past I'd say why? Why should women stay home and men work? Now why are women determined to be better than men they're not. Some are some aren't it's all depending on the person and the task. As a female I've been told to stand back when a fridge had to be moved. I ripped it out of the wall and into the center of the kitchen, gave the finger and walked away. This Sumer as a male my landlord asked me to carry a fridge down three stories of stairs on my own. Easily done, but anyway. I'm the same person. I just have short hair and a goatee now. Not much else has changed. I've been male online since the age of 16. I've been male since the age of 18. Get the point? I currently live as a man in a small hick town full of catholics and rednecks. Most people tell me I still sound female online. That's good. I think anyway. I think women are naturally more inclined to be intellectuals with empathy and that is a good way to be in my opinion. While they are headstrong to win a debate they will not make asses of themselves in order to be right. I hope that's why most people see me as being female online. To clear things up I am Ojibway Nation Two Spirit. An intersexed androgyne, and proud of it. So if you can't tell what gender I am. Don't worry, neither can I. Gender is only a state of mind and if you are true to your own being you'll realize that it's just another useless invention of modern society. My life for one, would be easier without it entirely!
If life is like a box of chocolates than Science and Philosophy are the insert card that let's you know what you're going to get. Read it wisely! ~Me

Cadrache
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Posted 11/09/09 - 12:02 PM:	#10
How much more do you perceive 'individual' when you compare online people vs. people you see 'in the real world'?
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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