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Nietzsche - understandable?

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Nietzsche - understandable?

JAC
An Honest Aesthetic

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Posted 09/17/09 - 06:53 PM:	#51
banno wrote: My own theory comes from noticing that Nietzsche appeals to adolescent males. It is something to do with the rejection of the family, especially of the father. He is a philosopher for those who need help to stand on their own... philosophytomorrow wrote: As an in-between of adolescent and adult male, I see verfent support for Nietzche from my peers, and some that have "grown out" of Nietzche as well. It's all that damn angst bursting out -- same reason kids love Fight Club. To banno and philosophytomorrow: Ah, but don't we all have our crutch? Why would anyone ever do anything, after all, if not out of some eternal emptiness? Purpose implies forethought, forethought implies want, want implies lack. Does the megaphone make the words any less meaningful? Does the crutch make the man any less tall? We all have our reasons for believing what we believe. Would you two assume your mere descriptions, your mere hypothesizing, as some kind of moral critique? I certainly hope not. Our reasons, our history, our path, is made of weakness, but built by strength. Philosophytomorrow, your post in particular reeks of pseudo-maturity, blanketed in a critique of so-called adolescence. Is "2 + 2 = 4" an untrue statement when mouthed by a child? Ad hominem attacks get you nowhere. And yes, I am a young male. Clearly my insecurities shine through on this one. But I still have the strength to hold up the mirror! In regards to Nietzsche's influence on Nazism: Whether it was overtly stated, or whether it simply follows naturally from having an Overman ideal, Nietzsche's radical aestheticism certainly emerged in the Nazi high-command. They loved the look of their tanks and war machines, and the look of the destruction they wrought, and the "smell of napalm in the morning", as it were. While many hated the war, there were still those, particularly on the Nazi side, who saw it as a beautiful thing. Nietzsche's influence was undoubtedly there, though his philosophy was, undoubtedly, perverted.
"A life with love will have many thorns, but a life without love will have no roses." - Friedrich Nietzsche "I feel as if I were a piece in a game of chess, when my opponent says of it: That piece can not be moved." - Soren Kierkegaard

Mako
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Posted 09/17/09 - 08:14 PM:	#52
Banno wrote: I also find this fascinating. But remember that it is this that permits us to play a quick game of "Wind up the overman" in the time that the eggs poach. One of my favourite pastimes. My own theory comes from noticing that Nietzsche appeals to adolescent males. It is something to do with the rejection of the family, especially of the father. He is a philosopher for those who need help to stand on their own... Anybody with five consonants in a row in their name has to be wrong. I would eschew the company of the overman for that of the bungled and botched. Actually I tend to agree. Even though it does as 180 stated, amount to 'psychologisim,' and is not in itself a valid criticism of Nietzsche's philosophy, I think if one could do a survey of his supporters, one would probably find a disproportionate number would fall within the general range which Banno describes. Similarly, it seems that post-war Existentialism (Sartre, Camus etc.) attracted the artsy-literary crowd, although both Sartre and Camus were writers of fiction themselves, which would have naturally attracted the literary crowd anyway. But my own perception is that those philosophers whose writings are less systematic and analytical tend to invite a wider variety of interpretations. Not every thinker is predisposed to write in the scholastic-systematic manner of an Aquinas or a Kant. But as some have noted with Kant's writings, even given his detailed, systematic style of writing, he's still seen as being opaque by some, a difficult read as it were, even though his intentions were actually quite the opposite. Oh, and Banno's comment about the "five consonants in a row" thing is demonstratable through rigorous scientific methods.
"To alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." ~ Homer Simpson

Elston
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Posted 09/17/09 - 08:54 PM:	#53
Interesting observations being put forth, if not entirely superficial - as if one could judge a philosophy based on the demographics of its followers. I strongly doubt that most young men who claim to love Nietzsche have actually read and studied one of his texts, which are astonishingly profound and insightful. I'll admit, even I prefer to judge those who champion a philosopher I don't appreciate, like Kant, as mechanistic dolts; but that's only because I don't understand Kant's philosophy. The idea that you won't read up on a philosopher because he is adored by a 'crowd' you don't fit in with! And I thought there were no vain school girls amongst philosophers.

Banno
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Posted 09/17/09 - 11:34 PM:	#54
philosophytomorrow wrote: As an in-between of adolescent and adult male, I see verfent support for Nietzche from my peers, and some that have "grown out" of Nietzche as well. It's all that damn angst bursting out -- same reason kids love Fight Club. Indeed. He is really not worth the fuss.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Banno
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Posted 09/17/09 - 11:38 PM:	#55
JAC wrote: Why would anyone ever do anything, after all, if not out of some eternal emptiness? An all-and-some assertion. Unassailable. But it says nothing. But I still have the strength to hold up the mirror! The Messiah has spoken.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Banno
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Posted 09/17/09 - 11:48 PM:	#56
Talk of Nietzsche always puts me in mind of Otto: Otto West: Apes don't read philosophy. Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

philosophytomorrow
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Posted 09/18/09 - 11:17 AM:	#57
JAC wrote: Philosophytomorrow, your post in particular reeks of pseudo-maturity, blanketed in a critique of so-called adolescence. Is "2 + 2 = 4" an untrue statement when mouthed by a child? Ad hominem attacks get you nowhere. And yes, I am a young male. Clearly my insecurities shine through on this one. But I still have the strength to hold up the mirror! sorry? (2+2=4 is not the same as preferences for philosophers) P.S. do you like Fight Club? Edited by philosophytomorrow on 09/18/09 - 12:45 PM
"In short, a land ethic changes the role of Homo sapiens from conqueror of the land-community to plain member and citizen of it." - Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac "A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise." -- Ipid.

Banno
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Posted 09/18/09 - 01:08 PM:	#58
I haven't seen fight club. Is it worth the effort?
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

philosophytomorrow
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Posted 09/18/09 - 01:11 PM:	#59
Banno wrote: I haven't seen fight club. Is it worth the effort? It's a good movie, a better book (but the movie's better). There's some great social rhetoric in it, and though this isn't a reason I watched it, you get to see Brad Pitt all hot and sweaty with his shirt off. It just has a teenage cult following like Donny Darko. So the rhetoric is given more credit than is due.
"In short, a land ethic changes the role of Homo sapiens from conqueror of the land-community to plain member and citizen of it." - Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac "A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise." -- Ipid.

Banno
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Posted 09/18/09 - 01:50 PM:	#60
Donny Darko was a letdown. Not sure I would derive much pleasure from a sweaty Brad Pitt.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

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