Negative Numbers : Philosophy Forums

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Negative Numbers

Banno
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Posted 10/23/09 - 01:55 PM:	#11
Yes, that's it!
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Cadrache
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Posted 10/23/09 - 02:57 PM:	#12
I always liked the ideology of quantatative locationality. - 7 should read as "At the point of 0 on our number line, we are missing an additional 7 quantities." It only gets complicated when at a specific location X - you end up with more quantities then what you are missing from 0.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Lord Henry
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Posted 10/24/09 - 04:10 PM:	#13
How can you be accused of pondering on a forum where you have as much time to think of a response as you wish. In this case, everyone on this forum is guilty of pondering. Also, if you do not ponder a situation, you blurt out nonsensical babel. Philosophy is a subject that should always be pondered.

Arkady
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Posted 10/24/09 - 04:25 PM:	#14
Samuel Locke wrote: Math for the most part is quite logical. One thing I fail to understand is how negative numbers fit with this sentiment. Zero is considered the epitome of nothing. So how can there be less than nothing? Numbers needn't always describe physical quantities. You're correct that saying "I have -3 apples in my bag" is nonsensical, but it doesn't follow that the very notion of -3 is nonsensical.
"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion. Follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing." -T.H. Huxley

ragus
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Posted 10/25/09 - 05:19 AM:	#15
Lord Henry, pondering is eliminated by the requirement of doing away with zero (as suggested by Banno who is known to be philosophically provocative). The elimination renders pondering on zero unnecessary but not pondering in general. Feel free to ponder and respond (an anagram btw of ponder by the addition of the letter s) as you see fit.
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

ragus
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Posted 10/25/09 - 05:26 AM:	#16
Arkady wrote You're correct that saying "I have -3 apples in my bag" is nonsensical If I sneak 3 apples from your bag of apples would you be talking nonsense if you claimed that you were missing 3 apples?
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

Arkady
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Posted 10/25/09 - 07:13 AM:	#17
ragus wrote: If I sneak 3 apples from your bag of apples would you be talking nonsense if you claimed that you were missing 3 apples? Missing 3 apples wouldn't mean I have negative 3 apples, it would mean I had 0 apples.
"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion. Follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing." -T.H. Huxley

throng
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Posted 10/25/09 - 08:15 AM:	#18
If there were no zero on the numeric scale.... The scale would start somewhere and just keep going. Such as Roman numerals, there'd be no negative numbers, but the figure 'I' would be positive in the number VI and negative in the number IV.
I know that I don't know, so I don't know if I do.

ragus
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Posted 10/25/09 - 08:36 AM:	#19
Arkady wrote Missing 3 apples wouldn't mean I have negative 3 apples, it would mean I had 0 apples. So you can have 0 apples in your bag but not -3 apples. This sounds like discrimination against the negative. You would have 0 apples left in your bag only if you had no more than 3 apples in your bag before I took them. But you would be *down* 3 apples, wouldn't you? What if I left a note saying "I owe you 3 apples"? Would you claim that to be meaningless? What if I left a note saying "You owed me 3 apples"?
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

Arkady
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Posted 10/25/09 - 08:46 AM:	#20
ragus wrote: So you can have 0 apples in your bag but not -3 apples. Yup. ragus wrote: This sounds like discrimination against the negative. Perhaps a new Supreme Court case is on the horizon? ragus wrote: You would have 0 apples left in your bag only if you had no more than 3 apples in your bag before I took them. The only condition for having 0 apples in my bag is not having any apples in my bag. ragus wrote: But you would be *down* 3 apples, wouldn't you? Yes, but that point is irrelevant. I have zero apples regardless of how I came to be divested of them ragus wrote: What if I left a note saying "I owe you 3 apples"? Would you claim that to be meaningless? What if I left a note saying "You owed me 3 apples"? Again, irrelevant. A promissory note of having apples isn't an actual quantity.
"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion. Follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing." -T.H. Huxley

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