Need Help with Paper Argument for Dennett's : Philosophy Forums

Need Help with Paper Argument for Dennett's
Hoping I could bounce some ideas of people.

Need Help with Paper Argument for Dennett's

panken202
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Posted 11/02/09 - 08:38 PM: Subject: Need Help with Paper Argument for Dennett's Where am I	#1
My teacher assigned us a paper with this prompt: Select a problematic part of Dennett's "Where Am I?" to explain and discuss. I already written one draft and my angle is to describe Dennett when he retreats back to his brain after his body is killed on his mission. He is only a brain in a vat, and I argue that when he is in that vat, he has no sensory perception. This means he does not exist in a physical sense, since he has no communication with the outside world. However, my teacher commented on my draft and said to more fully develop this concept and that is was unclear. What do you all think? Is there any thoughts you can add to support my point, or even, suggestions to tweak it alittle bit and go in a different direction? The hard part is I have to find a "problem" with Dennett's logic. For those who need the text, click http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/WhereAmI.html The paragraph that has my main argument starts "The Joy of philosophic discovery..." Thanks for your help in advance! Edited by panken202 on 11/02/09 - 08:46 PM

Cadrache
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Posted 11/02/09 - 08:50 PM:	#2
In which viewpoint did you explain or discuss The paper? Did you discuss the written work? Or the illusory outcomes of Dennett? Discovery of what the author wrote sometimes entails questioning whether or not the answer you wish to seek lies within the work or outside of it. PS: I agree with your teacher.... your draft is non-existent. As such his statment would be my statement.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

panken202
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Posted 11/02/09 - 09:01 PM:	#3
What I'm trying to do is find a problem with the essay....as the prompt asks. The question I want to deal with his his "senses," and how he has none after his body dies because his body cannot rely his nerves to his brain. He cannot feel the touch of something, the sound of something, etc. I want to argue that this disconnect means that he is only a mind, since there is a body-mind disconnect. True, there is a tangible "brain," but since he can't connect with any part of his body or senses, then he does not exist in a physical way. I guess, I need help finding a different way to describe a "physical way" to support my viewpoint to prevent someone else saying.....well he still has a brain in the vat, so he exists physically.

Cadrache
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Posted 11/02/09 - 09:20 PM:	#4
Ahhh! When you state 'physical way' might I suggest you alter that idea slightly to differ between "physical sense" and "brain-sense" for lack of a better term? Just between you and me? post 3 indicates that you are no longer a student seeking aid. It implies that you are looking for a 'fork' in your thought processes that you missed. This thought expressly does not have any physical reality. I gotta go for the rest of the night. Work is over.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

panken202
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Posted 11/02/09 - 10:06 PM:	#5
So...what if I did it from this vantage point: What if I instead describe his new perspective from a BIV, saying how this perspective is coherent in the sense he can have the point of view as a BIV. Yet at the same time, since he lost his ability to physically feel tangible human functions (such as tears/sweat, which he states) his identity and surroundings is confined to his thoughts. He cannot be fully "conscious" or "aware" without having the functions in place to sense his point of view. What arguments do you have for/against that? Is that still a "problematic" angle that I could go from, even if its not critical? Even though all this is so complicated and difficult, I find it quite intriguing

Cadrache
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Posted 11/03/09 - 02:08 PM:	#6
It doesn't matter which perspective you use if you do not define Dennett. If you remove Dennett's body then you no longer have Dennett - is the basic claim. If you remove the BIV you no longer have Dennett. So.... what is Dennett? PS: Each of our 5 senses physically exist in both the brain and the nevous system. On account that you need both to operate - the removal of either would normally be considered adequate for the removal of senses. (I've read of a few bad varients on that basis. Not worth going in depth as to what they attempted.)
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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