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rvw
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Posted 02/02/05 - 10:08 PM:	#1
In "Language as an Adaptation to the Cognitive Niche", Steven Pinker (http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/) argues that language is "a trait whose genetic basis was shaped by natural selection." He first argues from "some very general properties of the natural history of language": 1. Language is universal, unlike culturally transmitted skills like farming techniques or playing chess. "There may be technologically primitive peoples, but there are no primitive languages ..." Also "the language of uneducated, working-class, and rural speakers has been found to be systematic and rule-governed ..." 2. "Languages conform to a universal design." "The [same] design specification ... can be found in all human languages..." 3. "Children the world over pass through a universal series of stages in acquiring a language ..." 4. "If children are thrown together without a pre-existing language that can be 'culturally transmitted' to them, they will develop one of their own." "Another example comes from deaf communities, where complex sign languages emerge quickly and spontaneously." 5. One may have language without "general intelligence". For example, in "Williams syndrome and the sequelae of hydrocephalus, substantially retarded children may speak fluently and grammatically..." Conversely, one may have "general intelligence" without language. For example, in aphasias and in Specific Language Impairment "intelligent people can have extreme difficulties speaking and understanding ..." Pinker also gives arguments from evolutionary game theory and molecular evolution. Further, he theorizes that intelligence, sociality, and language co-evolved sometime before fifty-thousand years ago. Each constituted a "selection pressure for the others." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First, does everyone agree with Pinker? If language is an evolved characteristic, does that mean it is something disgusting like sex, hunger, and fear? Or might it be that the disgusting things evloved over millions of years, but intelligence, sociality, and language, coming much later, are a step up from disgusting? Another question. Sometimes after I have been engrossed in writing something, I repeatedly reread it. It's as if I'm trying to figure out where all those words and sentences came from. Might it be because they come from something as deep as my genetic make-up?
Der Einwand, der Seitensprung, das fröhliche Misstrauen, die Spottlust sind Anzeichen der Gesundheit: alles Unbedingte gehört in die Pathologie.

Wax
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Posted 02/02/05 - 10:26 PM:	#2
rvw wrote: First, does everyone agree with Pinker? If language is an evolved characteristic, does that mean it is something disgusting like sex, hunger, and fear? Or might it be that the disgusting things evloved over millions of years, but intelligence, sociality, and language, coming much later, are a step up from disgusting? Another question. Sometimes after I have been engrossed in writing something, I repeatedly reread it. It's as if I'm trying to figure out where all those words and sentences came from. Might it be because they come from something as deep as my genetic make-up? I would agree to some extent. The rules would evolve from the need to communicate effectivly. Without structure communication would be difficult, though not impossable. The reason that languages would have the same design spec may be because languages the world over are requred for the same purpose. The point about intelligence is a difficult one from the point that intelligence is hard to pin down to one type. An idiot savant certainly is intelligent but not in the way that a corporate CEO is. So detaching language from intelligence is probably proper. I find your comments about it being disgusting like sex, hunger and fear odd. What exactly do you mean when you call these things disgusting as it doesn't seem like you are using a conventional definition? I doubt that language is part of genetic make up. Rathrer I would place it under social conditioning and need. Maybe you re-read things because you are checking to see that what you have written accurately explains what you are thinking.
Progress (n) advancement, progress (gradual improvement or growth or development)

rvw
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Posted 02/04/05 - 10:26 PM:	#3
Wax wrote: I would agree to some extent. The rules would evolve from the need to communicate effectivly. Without structure communication would be difficult, though not impossable. The reason that languages would have the same design spec may be because languages the world over are requred for the same purpose. The point about intelligence is a difficult one from the point that intelligence is hard to pin down to one type. An idiot savant certainly is intelligent but not in the way that a corporate CEO is. So detaching language from intelligence is probably proper. I find your comments about it being disgusting like sex, hunger and fear odd. What exactly do you mean when you call these things disgusting as it doesn't seem like you are using a conventional definition? I was partly joking, and I partly meant "base", "primal", or "primitive". Picture the lives of amoebae, slugs, worms, and squid. I doubt that language is part of genetic make up. Rathrer I would place it under social conditioning and need. I don't know. Pinker makes a pretty good case. See his complete article at http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/. Maybe you re-read things because you are checking to see that what you have written accurately explains what you are thinking. I am checking what I have written, but I do wonder where the words came from. The selection of words and construction of sentences is largely a subconscious process.
Der Einwand, der Seitensprung, das fröhliche Misstrauen, die Spottlust sind Anzeichen der Gesundheit: alles Unbedingte gehört in die Pathologie.

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