Music, and Its Importance.

Music, and Its Importance.
The Great Whatever
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Posted Mar 21, 2012 - 7:05 PM:

Sorry, I appreciate your sentiments, but I'm not following the way you compare music to language.Although in acoustic phonetics you have timbre and also intonations but they are not used the way they are utilized in music. And there is no identifiable rhythmic pattern and no harmony at all. More importantly, music adopts abstract ways to convey feelings, whereas sounds in language are mostly concerned with the conveyance of meanings. You might enjoy listening to the voice of a friend, but it is only because it reminds you of her/his characteristics. Sometimes a tone of a voice can be very pleasing, but that is not really categorized under language.


It's not particular to music. Music just happened to be my gateway into realizing that all phenomena are meaningful. Obviously language is meaningful in a way that's not exactly analogous to anything else, or we wouldn't be able to pick it out from anything else. But in one sense there is no "gap" between language and any other phenomenon - it is part of the essence of a phenomenon to mean. Everything is intentional/semantic.

What sense is that? Something like what Merleau-Ponty said about objects - we ask them questions with our senses, and they answer us. Not metaphorically, but literally.
Boats -N- Hoes
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Posted Mar 21, 2012 - 8:41 PM:

knucklehead wrote:
Boats and Hoes, Music has become the most important thing in my life other than my wife. I am totally simpathetic to your OP except for one element. You wrote: "Not only the sounds, but the words - Music needs this imperative balance." As a musician who finds endless interest in the study of melody and rhythm, I would not care if all the "canaries" of popular music, sacred songs and opera were struck dumb. Many people cannot focus on a piece of music for long, they require the distraction of something they can more easily relate to. That's OK, it is their perspective, but it is not the way an Uilleann piper, Louis Armstrong, Jimi Hendrix or Paganini listened to music.
Yes, I agree; but, believe it or not, I thought of this prior to posting this thread... I know there's people who enjoy music a lot more when vocals are not present, but, my point, by that statement, was to convey that, a person can delve deeper into a record, when the emotion of the artist is manifested not only in the beat, but, also in their judicious vocals...

Without words, both inner-monologue and external voices, how can one interpret a beat?... by reacting, mentally, and unconsciously, with intuitive ineffable emotions and vibes. But with words, a person, subjectively, can, without actually "speaking", interpret and register on a higher echelon, the beat, by itself.

So, yes, one CAN truly appreciate a beat with no "canaries", as u cleverly and haughtily put it, on the record, but, why not converge both trains of the thought/emotions, to appreciate the music on a even higher echelon? - The train of thought/emotions being manifested by the beat and artist/"canary", the object; and the train of thought/emotions being intuitively manifested by the subject.


Edited by Boats -N- Hoes on Mar 21, 2012 - 8:52 PM
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Posted Mar 21, 2012 - 11:57 PM:

Boats-N-Hoes wrote: why not converge both trains of the thought/emotions, to appreciate the music on a even higher echelon?

Well, at the risk of repeating myself, I don't think that is a higher echelon, I think its lower. A matter of taste really.

jamalbob wrote: "canaries" is an unfair term. He is absolutely right. All it does is allow me to vent my prejudice, but this is a prejudice I have held dearly since the last instrumental dropped out of the charts. Believe it or not, there was a time when half-decent musicians could actually hold the public's attention with melody alone. I don't like the term vocalist either, it gives singers way to much credit. But onto what I like about music. It has the power to evoke mood through association. All music is essentially symphonic. It just depends if you want to see that movie.
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Posted Mar 22, 2012 - 3:25 PM:

knucklehead wrote:
Well, at the risk of repeating myself, I don't think that is a higher echelon, I think its lower. A matter of taste really.
I didn't mean actually "higher" or "lower"; by "higher" I mean more in depth, intricate, and layered. - I gave you the esteem of understanding this.
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Posted Mar 22, 2012 - 3:51 PM:

For what it's worth my theory on music is this. Listening to music can do many things for us. If we put our earphones in, then it can block out the world. Just about every person on their way to work or on the street or jogging or in the gym has a set of earphones in, it is just noise. But it is soothing noise because the world is not a place we want to be part of at times. There is so much madness and crazy people in the world we just want to be on our own.

But if you take that a step further and say that listening to music can shut off the horrible reality of the world and you can just be with your subconscious self, what is it in your subconscious self that you are accessing that is happy where does that come from? Or are we just happy not to be in the reality of the world. My answer is that it is both. The ear plugs on the train is comfort but your faverite song you listen too on your own which can bring on basically ecctasy is the connection to your soul, a real part of yourself that holds some kind of inbuilt happiness and positivity for a future without all the madness of the world.
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Posted Mar 22, 2012 - 9:25 PM:

Boats -N- Hoes wrote:
I didn't mean actually "higher" or "lower"; by "higher" I mean more in depth, intricate, and layered. - I gave you the esteem of understanding this.



Thanks, I'll take all the esteem I can get.
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Posted Mar 22, 2012 - 9:31 PM:

Stunner wrote:
For what it's worth my theory on music is this. Listening to music can do many things for us. If we put our earphones in, then it can block out the world. Just about every person on their way to work or on the street or jogging or in the gym has a set of earphones in, it is just noise. But it is soothing noise because the world is not a place we want to be part of at times. There is so much madness and crazy people in the world we just want to be on our own.

But if you take that a step further and say that listening to music can shut off the horrible reality of the world and you can just be with your subconscious self, what is it in your subconscious self that you are accessing that is happy where does that come from? Or are we just happy not to be in the reality of the world. My answer is that it is both. The ear plugs on the train is comfort but your faverite song you listen too on your own which can bring on basically ecctasy is the connection to your soul, a real part of yourself that holds some kind of inbuilt happiness and positivity for a future without all the madness of the world.



Stunner, your theory is worth at least as much as anyone else's. It is rather a sign of the times though, that often when we talk about listening to music, we mean recorded music. For me, the ultimate musical experience is live and informal.
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Posted Mar 22, 2012 - 9:44 PM:

From source Beethoven:
Music is higher revelation than wisdom and philosophy ... Music is the mediator between spiritual and sensual life
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#19 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Mar 23, 2012 - 3:39 AM:

swstephe wrote:
From source Beethoven:
Music is higher revelation than wisdom and philosophy ... Music is the mediator between spiritual and sensual life


Kinda says it all, and I don't even like his music.
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Posted Mar 23, 2012 - 5:00 PM:

swstephe wrote:
From source Beethoven:
Music is higher revelation than wisdom and philosophy ... Music is the mediator between spiritual and sensual life
Yes... divine Music transcends into a "higher" reality - an untainted one. It is the will's manifestation in an eloquent and intangible form, - as "the will" itself is intangible.
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