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Me and existentialism/Nihilism

Devon8822
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Posted 06/01/08 - 10:18 AM: Subject: Me and existentialism/Nihilism	#1
I am looking for some thoughts for me to think about. How is it that I am an existentialist/nihilist, yet I still have goals in life, I still have plans, I enjoy music, etc... I know that life is pointless. What is it thats keeping me living like I am? Is it just a human beings "natural" psychology? I am left slightly confused, if anybody can bring up some thoughts on the matter I would very much appreciate it. I know this must be something that interests other peopl as well. As well as that... I cannot find out what is so bad about nihilism? My philosophy teacher spoke of it as if it was a bad thing. I seem to agree with exactly what it stands for. Why do philosophers resent the title? Thanks! Edited by Devon8822 on 06/01/08 - 12:15 PM

unenlightened
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Posted 06/01/08 - 12:49 PM:	#2
Devon8822 wrote: I am looking for some thoughts for me to think about. How is it that I am an existentialist/nihilist, yet I still have goals in life, I still have plans, I enjoy music, etc... I know that life is pointless. What is it thats keeping me living like I am? Is it just a human beings "natural" psychology? I am left slightly confused, if anybody can bring up some thoughts on the matter I would very much appreciate it. I know this must be something that interests other peopl as well. As well as that... I cannot find out what is so bad about nihilism? My philosophy teacher spoke of it as if it was a bad thing. I seem to agree with exactly what it stands for. Why do philosophers resent the title? Thanks! If you still have goals, you haven't fully embraced nihilism. However, the fact that you are looking for thoughts to think is a clue for you as to what is so bad about it - nothing. Is there any point in continuing this conversation? On my side there is sympathy for your plight, but if you are just filling time with thoughts, I am probably wasting mine. I recommend working as a volunteer with people who are in a worse situation than you, they may be able to help you, and it will give you something more interesting than yourself to think about.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Devon8822
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Posted 06/01/08 - 02:16 PM:	#3
Well, I figured it out, as the whole idea is very confusing. The basic definition of existentialism is wrong. I just spent a while figuring out what was confusing me. I discovered that theres are basically two meanings in ones life that they have to define. First one being a greater meaning, inherent meaning, or god... the second meaning is that there is a meaning or value too be found in life. Nihilists believe that is no meaning in either of them. Existentialists believe that the meaning is to be found in the "lesser meaning" not the "greater meaning". So I am therefore a existentialist. The definition mostly found for existentialism is "Existentialism is a philosophical movement which posits that individuals create the meaning and essence of their lives, as opposed to deities or authorities creating it for them." and the definition for nihilism is "Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value" But really... what makes an existentialist and existentialist is that they believe their is not inherent/greater meaning to life but that they make their own "lesser meaning" with goals, hobbies, love, etc... The whole thing is not explained anywhere properly. Anyways, after I figured that out, I found this chart at this link on wikipedia which confirmed my thoughts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

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Posted 06/01/08 - 02:23 PM:	#4
Devon8822 wrote: How is it that I am an existentialist/nihilist, yet I still have goals in life, I still have plans, I enjoy music, etc... I would say that the reason you make goals and plans in your life is because you care about your own happiness and wellbeing. If you didnt care about these things then you would simply sit staring into space, slowly starving to death. I think that a desire to be happy does not contadict your idea that life is pointless Hope that helped?

The Escapist
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Posted 06/02/08 - 10:02 AM:	#5
Devon8822 wrote: The whole thing is not explained anywhere properly. How could you possibly know that? Are you saying you were born knowing what it means and everybody else has got it wrong?

saxystyk
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Posted 06/04/08 - 03:50 PM:	#6
The Escapist wrote: How could you possibly know that? Are you saying you were born knowing what it means and everybody else has got it wrong? Just because he chose not to use a qualifier such as "anywhere that I found" doesn't mean he truly believes no explanation exists. And just because he states an explanation doesn't mean he hasn't based it on many other ideas that he has read and seem very complex to him. Maybe ask him why he used the word? I perceive a very negative tone and he is trying to understand philosophy, which isn't a very easy thing to do for everyone and does not need the criticism of others. Maybe he feels differently though, who knows. Perhaps Devon there should say something on the issue, because language is a very big issue in communicating and being able to clarify oneself is of vital importance.
"There is no luck, only ones own perseverance and dedication" -Me

The Escapist
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Posted 06/05/08 - 10:15 AM:	#7
Devon presents himself as someone who can talk with some understanding about existentialism and nihilism, and he says he wants things to think about. I judge that he is capable of expressing himself adequately, and that he is capable of coherent and logical argumentation, but he hasn't done that here. As well as the sentence I complained about, where he said the whole thing is not explained anywhere properly, Devon said: The basic definition of existentialism is wrong. Devon wanted something to think about. My question was intended to get him to think a bit more about what he has already said, and about what he says next.

Devon8822
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Posted 06/05/08 - 05:56 PM:	#8
Ok, well yes I agree with you "the Escapist" that what I said did not make very much sense. I am forgetting that i need to speak with higher language here. Let me correct what I meant to say. Ok, the most common definition found for existentialism (I am talking short one sentence definitions) is something along the lines of: "Existentialism is a philosophical movement which posits that individuals create the meaning and essence of their lives, as opposed to deities or authorities creating it for them." This makes sense but I find that it is missing out on a key point which led to my confusion, basing the idea of existentialism solely on this definition. As I was saying above, there are two different meanings "There is such a thing as "meaning" or "value" to be found in life" (is what existentialists believe) and they do not believe "There is inherent meaning in the universe (either intrinsic or from God)"... which essentialist do believe. So a "greater meaning" and a "personal meaning". existentialists believe in the personal meaning. Now the reason that definition seems incorrect is that it just says that the individual creates meaing in their lives, without distinguishing which meaning "greater" or "personal"... Hopefully you can understand my point there?

The Escapist
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Posted 06/06/08 - 01:53 PM:	#9
Devon8822 wrote: Ok, well yes I agree with you "the Escapist" that what I said did not make very much sense. I am forgetting that i need to speak with higher language here. Let me correct what I meant to say. You don't need to speak with higher language. Lower language would be better. Devon8822 wrote: Now the reason that definition seems incorrect is that it just says that the individual creates meaning in their lives, without distinguishing which meaning "greater" or "personal"... Hopefully you can understand my point there? I can, yes. I think you were nearer the truth in your first post, where you wondered if what keeps you going is just natural human psychology. And animals are the same, even simple animals, even plants, they are just naturally arranged so that if they get the chance they will live, develop, make more life. I suppose it makes you sound a bit more exciting if you say "oh, I have to give meaning to my own life, otherwise there will be like this gaping void".

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Posted 06/12/08 - 12:07 AM:	#10
There's a popular misconception within Existentialists which cries out that we believe in no-thing. Not nothing but rather no-thing. That we're solely relied upon our own internal mechanism to further our growth and perpetuate and understand our place in the world. This is not untrue. To a point. True Existentialism explains that we must declare responsiblity for our decisions and uphold those decisions, be them good or wrong, in order for us to expand on that knowledge and use it as a tool of reflection. We can thereby use this reflection to base further judgements and decisions. This removes any fancied glamourizing of omnisceint spectres and also takes away any finger pointing toward those higher unseen powers.

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