Love, why define it?: Philosophy Forums

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Love, why define it?

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Love, why define it?

kkiiji
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Posted 08/17/09 - 12:34 PM: Subject: Love, why define it?	#1
People have this obsession with defining love, and when we can't define it it precisely it all of a sudden becomes a mystery somehow. This seems to be an absurd effect of rationalization to me, do we understand concepts because we have a concrete definition of them? Let's take something that's not even so elusive, a dog. How do you define a dog? Seems to me it would be quite troublesome to attempt to define a dog precisely, we end up having to resort to molecular phylogeny, which by no means is how common people understand the concept of a dog. It appears that this is at least the same case for love, we don't grasp the concept of love through some sort of concrete definition, thus when we try to look for one it appears hard to find one. This does NOT necessarily mean that we don't know what love is, or that it's somehow elusive and mysterious, it means that it's a phenomenal, emotional experience that's hard to contain with precise and categorical language. When I say the word love, you know what I'm talking about, isn't that enough?
Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke, everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum... Curtains.

Warshed
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Posted 08/17/09 - 01:14 PM:	#2
The problem is that it can be ambiguous and also it helps to define it when you aren't sure if someone actually feels love for you. There is a thin line between love, lust, obsession, and infatuation. If I am about to ask a girl to marry me, I want to be sure she loves me, so I start to question exactly what love is. The proper and improper definition of love could mean the difference between marrying the right girl. I mean a girl could love your body and your abilities in the sack, but she hates the fact that you have no ambition. The marriage won't last most likely. I think its important to have a very keen understanding of what love is and what its not. People have screwed up understandings of love all the time.

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Posted 08/17/09 - 01:36 PM:	#3
I partially agree. I don't think we should define "love". In the public sphere, it is not an interesting concept anyway. But I don't agree with a generalization of this argument. This is sort of saying : "Uh.. what do we need definitions for? we all know what we mean." The importance of a definition is not that it capture all of the actual meaning of a specific term, but that it define what should be treated as [the defined] in all possible scenarios. And that it deliver a test, to test with, what is inside the borders of the definition and what is not. When people want to communicate and discuss an idea, it is absolutely crucial for them to define the terms they use. But if you'd answer your girlfriend for the question "Do you love me?" with "Define love." You'll be treated as if you dodge the question. There is good reasons why people will not define their terms, this way they can change the meaning of what they say all the time and manipulate other people thoughts and actions using this as a tool. Just look at any demagogue, chances are he is using a vague language. Edited by hyena in petticoat on 08/19/09 - 12:44 AM

kkiiji
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Posted 08/17/09 - 02:12 PM:	#4
The argument is only meant for love, I understand that definitions are quite useful for many other concepts where rational clarity is essential. To answer Warshed, I've never had to define lust, obsession and love to refer to them and know when someone or I is experiencing either. I don't see how a solid definition is necessary to distinguish between them. The difference between each phenomenon is phenomenally experienced, we simply feel different when we're experiencing lust, love, and obsession, so why do we need definitions to be able to tell them apart?
Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke, everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum... Curtains.

Warshed
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Posted 08/17/09 - 03:36 PM:	#5
kkiiji wrote: The argument is only meant for love, I understand that definitions are quite useful for many other concepts where rational clarity is essential. To answer Warshed, I've never had to define lust, obsession and love to refer to them and know when someone or I is experiencing either. I don't see how a solid definition is necessary to distinguish between them. The difference between each phenomenon is phenomenally experienced, we simply feel different when we're experiencing lust, love, and obsession, so why do we need definitions to be able to tell them apart? Sometimes by defining things conceptually we create a reality around them before which its all faint and hazy. When we make things explicit in the mind, its more easily manipulated. There is a hot girl at the party, do I love her, or do I simply just want to put my penis in her. Being explicit internally about this can determine how badly I feel when she rejects me. Internally I can be like, whatever, she was just a trick anyways, OR shit I just missed out on a girl I really cared about deeply. I am different from most however because I don't like to operate in the drunken haze that is life, I like to have nice artificial lines created so that I can navigate through life as if I know what I am doing.

kkiiji
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Posted 08/17/09 - 04:12 PM:	#6
The problem is that those lines are just as you described, artificial. When it really comes down to it, are you actually going to go to your bundle of affection definitions for guidance, or are you just going to go with how you feel? If you feel love towards someone, then you feel love towards them, if you feel lust towards someone, then you feel lust towards them. It's the enigma of associations we have with these words that cloud things up. We think love is something pure and mysterious, we think lust is something dirty and guilt ridden, we think obsession is something pathetic. Thus whenever we use these words we get caught up in whether we're using them right, but honestly who cares? Love, lust, and obsession are all emotions that will guide our actions WITHOUT us asking what it is we're feeling, that's what makes them love/lust/obsession. There's really no point in asking "Do I love her?" since it doesn't warrant anything, it doesn't mean you ought to think about her more if you do, since if you love her you would naturally think about her more. All the same, telling yourself "Oh I just wanted to bang that chick, she doesn't mean anything" is also redundant, if it was just lust then you naturally wouldn't be thinking about her. All these romanticized ideas about love and how it's more "holy" than the other feelings are just sort of extra baggage that we needn't get caught up in.
Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke, everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum... Curtains.

wuliheron
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Posted 08/17/09 - 06:10 PM:	#7
"In the name of love, what more in the name of love?" U2 If you were beaten in the name of love, watched people you love killed in the name of love, no doubt you too might want or even demand a more concrete definition.

kkiiji
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Posted 08/17/09 - 10:48 PM:	#8
I don't really see how..I mean it's a strong emotion, thus it can influence people to do some crazy things, that's kind of a given. I don't need a definition of love to understand that.
Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke, everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum... Curtains.

Seamus
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Posted 08/18/09 - 10:36 PM:	#9
Because it's a word that is used a lot, and you should know the definition of words being used! And because if you say something like I mean it's a strong emotion... then you disagree with someone like me who says that love is not an emotion! It is often tied up with emotions but I would say that it isn't one. I would say love is a decision to be willing to sacrifice. The extent to which yo are willing to sacrifice is the extent of your love.
Religious and philosophical beliefs are, indeed, as dangerous as fire, and nothing can take from them that beauty of danger. - G.K. Chesterton

kkiiji
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Posted 08/18/09 - 10:43 PM:	#10
But it can not be defined, your definition is clearly very limited and only addresses one aspect of love. The point I'm trying to make is that even though love can not be clearly defined, it doesn't mean we don't know what it is. There are a whole lot of words that we can not clearly define, yet we all have a decent idea of what people refer to when they use those words. The thing is definitions don't always work so clear cut, many times words have definitions that are elusive and can not be easily contained. Phenomenal experiences can all be given names, but many of them can not be categorized into clear rational descriptions, love is one of those phenomenal experiences.
Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke, everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum... Curtains.

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