Looking for books...: Philosophy Forums

Calendar

Quick Links open

New Posts Member List

Help

Philosophy Forums » Introduction to Philosophy / Factual Issues / Books » Looking for books... » Looking for books...

Looking for books...
Plato's Forms & Divine Illumination

Looking for books...

fgfgdftr
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 11, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 16

Posted 05/11/08 - 05:15 AM: Subject: Looking for books...	#1
So my quest has begun and I tread the path of truth...I had an idea recently which was basically that our desires are driven by our wishes (desires of the soul), the soul desires 'pure forms' and the flesh desires 'crude forms'..these were just ideas so I started doing some reading on the Stanford Philosophy website and I came across a few interesting subjects: Plato's forms and Divine Illumination (the Aquinas section), so basically I'm looking for some interesting reading material related to these subjects because i desire to refine my thought thanks

Tobias
metaphysical exorcist

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Feb 17, 2003
Location: The world has moved on
Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 4872

Posted 05/11/08 - 06:06 AM:	#2
Indeed, if these are the subjects that interest you, try Plato and Aristoteles' Metaphysics'. Perhaps a text book about it. I have read Politis "Aristotle and the Metaphysics" Routledge Philosophy Guidebooks.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

jdrw
definitely ~d1

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Total Topics: 11
Total Posts: 1532

Posted 05/11/08 - 06:50 AM:	#3
Umm ... you've made a wrong turn already. Soul, pure forms, the flesh, crude forms, Plato, Aquinas, Divine Illumination are not on "the path to truth"--they're sink holes in the Swamp of Delusion. Great familiarity with which, however, has been recommended for generations to qualify for the coveted Certificate of Dogmatic Obfuscation and Pseudo-Profundity (Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur.) People who slog around in the Swamp of Delusion too long sink deeper and deeper, and sometimes even end up actually thinking they understand Hegel. Save yourself before it's too late. Read Hume. Cheers. jd
_____________________ OTOH I might be exhaustively wrong about everything I've ever thought--with the possible exception of this sentence.

fgfgdftr
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 11, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 16

Posted 05/11/08 - 11:54 AM:	#4
jdrw wrote: Umm ... you've made a wrong turn already. Soul, pure forms, the flesh, crude forms, Plato, Aquinas, Divine Illumination are not on "the path to truth"--they're sink holes in the Swamp of Delusion. Great familiarity with which, however, has been recommended for generations to qualify for the coveted Certificate of Dogmatic Obfuscation and Pseudo-Profundity (Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur.) People who slog around in the Swamp of Delusion too long sink deeper and deeper, and sometimes even end up actually thinking they understand Hegel. Save yourself before it's too late. Read Hume. Cheers. jd as long as you walk with an open mind everything is on the path to truth however these are my first steps into philosophical territory and I feel 'drawn' to said subjects so first off i'll satisfy this 'impulse' then progress onto whatever lies in wait..and thanks for the hume recommendation, i'll have a look. @ Tobias, thanks for the recommendations

Tobias
metaphysical exorcist

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Feb 17, 2003
Location: The world has moved on
Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 4872

Posted 05/11/08 - 12:21 PM:	#5
And rightly so. According to analytics this is bull, but the continentals swear that to become a good philosopher one needs to know the classics and find your way. If pure forms and divine illumination is cock and bull you will find out for yourself, as you will get interested to find out more. You will get to Hume in due time. So indeed read Aristotle's metaphysics, you could do a lot worse.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

pluke
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Nov 21, 2006
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 2

2 of 2 people found this post helpful Posted 05/12/08 - 12:42 PM:	#6
I would highly recommend A History of Western Philosophy by Frederick Copleston. Weighing in at 11 volumes it's quite big but covers almost everything. Very well written as well.

fgfgdftr
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 11, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 16

Posted 05/12/08 - 01:33 PM:	#7
pluke wrote: I would highly recommend A History of Western Philosophy by Frederick Copleston. Weighing in at 11 volumes it's quite big but covers almost everything. Very well written as well. ha! I don't want to read philosophy for the sake of reading philosophy I first want to develop my areas of interest, so I certainly won't be reading no 11 volumes of work but maybe one day in the future...

TheManWhoWasThursday
Careful Student

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 14, 2008
Location: North Carolina
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 2

Posted 05/14/08 - 10:39 AM: Subject: Don't overlook Copleston	#8
fgfgdftr wrote: ha! I don't want to read philosophy for the sake of reading philosophy I first want to develop my areas of interest, so I certainly won't be reading no 11 volumes of work but maybe one day in the future... While I haven't read the entirety of Copleston's History of Western Philosophy, I have read several volumes and I must agree that it is an excellent work. Actually, I found it interesting to read sections of it at the same time I was reading the corresponding sections in Bertrand Russel's History of Western Philosophy. It provides some interesting contrasts between the two and provides for a somewhat broader understanding of the subjects dealt with. And I would recommend reading at least some works of this type to see not only what Plato and those who agree with him say, but also what the objections raised by the opposition are. It's only by viewing the full argument of philosophy that we can grow from reading its history, reading only one side of the argument gives us a very skewed view of the truth. Seeing that you don't want to commit to reading an entire eleven volume work is a good thing, that is a big undertaking and it's good that you understand your limits, but you could just read the first volume, which focuses on Greece and Rome and would therefore give you a healthy grounding for the study of Plato. As far as the forms and Plato, I would recommend especially reading the Republic and the Sophist, though I really would read a lot more than that because much more reading of Plato is necessary to understand what he is saying in these works. These are merely recommendations for areas to focus on more intensely. If you are as interested in Plato as you seem to be I would recommend the Collected Dialogues of Plato (ISBN number 0-691-09718-6), this is the collection we used in my Plato class and it is an excellent book that brings all the Dialogues together in one cover, making it easy to look back and forth between them to see how the ideas develop. Good luck and the most important advice anyone can give you is to keep thinking about what is being said as you read these, it is easy to just read them passively but the real growth comes when you actually study them and read them critically. Don't just follow the arguments as Plato presents them, raise issues with them and then try find answers to the problems you raise. Take the time to really think about what is being said. There's a reason why Alfred North Whitehead said "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." A firm grasp of Plato can guide you farther towards truth, even if you find that you eventually have to let much of what he said go. And to those who counsel against the study of Plato, etc. I would say that even if you disagree with Plato it's important to study him so you can be sure you are really disagreeing with him and not a characterization of him put forward by some other commentator. Straw man is an easy tactic to use in dealing with an opponent who has been dead for several thousand years and the only way to overcome it is to go directly to the source of the original argument. Edited by jdrw on 05/14/08 - 10:58 AM. Reason: spacing between paragraphs for readability
_____________________ "I tell you naught for your comfort, Yea, naught for your desire, Save that the sky grows darker yet And the sea rises higher." G. K. Chesterton

fgfgdftr
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 11, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 16

Posted 05/14/08 - 12:53 PM:	#9
Thanks for your post TheManWhoWasThursday TheManWhoWasThursday wrote: And I would recommend reading at least some works of this type to see not only what Plato and those who agree with him say, but also what the objections raised by the opposition are. It's only by viewing the full argument of philosophy that we can grow from reading its history, reading only one side of the argument gives us a very skewed view of the truth. Seeing that you don't want to commit to reading an entire eleven volume work is a good thing, that is a big undertaking and it's good that you understand your limits, but you could just read the first volume, which focuses on Greece and Rome and would therefore give you a healthy grounding for the study of Plato. Yeah I agree actually, my initial response to the idea of reading an 11 volume piece of work was knee-jerk for some reason I thought it'd require me to read all of the eleven volumes instead of selected pieces, so I may order volume 1 because I would like a fuller understanding of the Greek era.

7
Graduate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Total Topics: 3
Total Posts: 153

Posted 05/14/08 - 02:04 PM:	#10
If Plato's theory of forms interests you, read Phaedo, Republic, Parmenides, Sophist. The listed order is a good way of going about it. At the very least, Parmenides should precede Sophist.

fgfgdftr
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 11, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 16

Posted 05/15/08 - 07:29 AM:	#11
7 wrote: If Plato's theory of forms interests you, read Phaedo, Republic, Parmenides, Sophist. The listed order is a good way of going about it. At the very least, Parmenides should precede Sophist. Noted. I am expecting Republic to be delivered in the next day or two and I will at some point tackle the others, though I've heard Parmenides is difficult to read...

Mariner
Longing

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Jan 12, 2004
Location: Brazil
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 4226

Posted 05/15/08 - 08:27 AM:	#12
While I heartily recommend Plato's dialogues themselves, I must say that my understanding of them has been increased manifold by two books: Paul Friedlander's "Plato: An Introduction" and Eric Voegelin's "Plato and Aristotle" (Volume 3 of "Order and History"). The Voegelin work related to Plato found in that book has also been published as a separate title, "Plato". Both volumes are very important antidotes to the many different kinds of misunderstandings which plague Platonic scholarship.
_____________________ "In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't." -- Blaise Pascal "The more I am by myself and alone, the more I have come to love myths" -- Aristotle in his later years

You don't have permission to post.

Please login or register.