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Loneliness
Loneliness, what is it? What is it to be alone?

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Loneliness

Minyun
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Posted 10/14/09 - 04:17 AM: Subject: Loneliness	#1
Loneliness, what is it? What is it to be alone? Can we achieve something more than this? In my definition the opposite of 'alone' is 'together', can anything truly be together? We may add 1+1 and it may equal 2, though the number 2 is now alone, for it is labeled and given a name and therefor singled out. The 2 still stands alone, one might argue and say 2 is made up of a total of 2 singluar parts being 1+1, though now even those entities are singluar, and once they are defined from the whole they exhibit an individual quality, thus they become alone again. Does our curiousity and thirst for knowledge lead us into loneliness? Do names define a certain individuality in an object? One might argue that through love we find togetherness, a love between 2 or more people, is this really the case? If I were to take a circle with a given area (x1) and add it to another circle with a given area (x2) we find that we are left with a larger circle with a given area (x3). This new bigger circle represents a new individual object, this expresses what love should truly be (a togetherness), but does it lead us away from loneliness for the new object formed is devoid of a partner. I have my doubts if anything can truly be together, this problem derives out of our lust to label and name everything we see. It seems the more we add taxonomy the more we are stripped from eachother (and everything). It seems that these distinctions we make invade every corner of the universe, for plant and animal even know friend from foe, many species indeed communicate danger, this is achieved through a distinction that the species makes in order to stay alive. Even as we travel up the evolutionay tree we find more and more species creating more and more distinctions. This fact is inescapable for it governs all living things. I don't see that we can go back and undo all the things we have done, as the days move on and more things become divided do we move further into loneliness? Do we move further into ourselves? Perhaps this 'togetherness' is achieved through offspring. To know that a part of your mind/genes dwell within your child may bring a feeling of togetherness, connectedness (between the 2 parents). I suppose that this is the closest that we can get to 'togetherness'. Isn't it strange how in order for life to exist one must disobey this 'law of loneliness' and create a 'togetherness'? A paradox of sorts. Am I alone in this thought? Edited by Minyun on 10/14/09 - 04:22 AM

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Posted 10/14/09 - 06:35 AM:	#2
Loneliness and being alone are, for me, not the same thing. I often feel very lonely when in the presence of larger groups. It is a question of the dynamics of relation that one has to the other or others. Other time, in the presence of no one, I can feel and experience things while reflecting upon shared feelings and experiences with other, thus feeling together. Loneliness/Together is a quality and has little to do with quantity. "With" is a very important element with regard to not being lonely. This is a quality of a relatioship and not just the sum of the people present. This "with" has to do, in the case, with being in some sort of "accord". There is something that binds. This "with" is non-competitative. One does not make profit or loss. It is not a question of giving or receiving or compromising. It is an ordeal. It is the experience that one can only make in the form of "being together" in accord with another or others. I see this forum as means to accord. Not with everyone, but with many. I feel less alone here, though sitting technically alone in front of my laptop with only a sleeping cat a company, as when I go to a disco or bar. I have more incommon and better chances for a quality accord and dialogue with others. Quality vs. Quantity Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

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Posted 10/14/09 - 06:43 AM:	#3
Minyun wrote: Am I alone in this thought? Are you actually in the thought? My favourite philosopher had a lot to say about loneliness and the ending of it. He makes a point of distinguishing loneliness from aloneness. J Krishnamurti wrote: So I am saying to you the activities of ambition - there are many forms of it - have brought about this pain of loneliness. You listen to that statement intellectually, verbally, you don't listen passionately. Right? You don't say, 'My god, I must solve this problem'. You say, 'Well, very nice, I will go on my way of being ambitious. It poisons me, but I don't mind.' But I do mind; to me it is an appalling thing to be ambitious, I have realised it, and I see the ugliness of it, the falseness of it, not verbally but actually. Therefore what takes place? It is like seeing a precipice which is not an abstraction, and when I see a precipice I move away from it - if I am sane. And I see the activities of ambition, and I move away completely from it. Now, wait. Then am I lonely? Of course not. Therefore I am self-sufficient. You understand? My relationship with you then is a man who is self-sufficient and you are not, therefore you are going to exploit me. Right? You are going to use me, because you are going to use me to satisfy yourself, and I say, 'Look, don't do it, it is a waste of time.' So I have a... - if I may put it, listen carefully. Relationship based on loneliness is one thing. Right? Relationship based on non -loneliness, complete self-sufficiency is another. You understand, sir? Now, sir, let's finish this. We have come to a really marvellous point. Relationship born out of loneliness leads to great misery. Just listen to it. Don't say, 'I must live that way' - it's like smelling a flower, just smell it, sir, you can't do anything about it, but you can't create the flower, you can only destroy it. Therefore just smell it, look at it - the beauty of it, the petals, the delicacy, the extraordinary quality of gentleness, you know what a flower is. In the same way just look at it, listen to it. Relationship born out of loneliness is one thing. Relationship born out of non -loneliness, therefore complete self-sufficiency, is another. Relationship out of loneliness leads to conflict, misery, divorce, fight, wrangles, sexual insufficiency - you are sexual, I am not, you know all that ugliness that goes on, or the beauty or whatever you like to call it. Out of that loneliness all the misery comes - right? - in relationship. Then what takes place when there is no loneliness, when there is complete self-sufficiency, no dependency? Right? You understand? When there is no dependency what takes place? I love you, you may not love me, I love you - that's good enough. You understand? I don't want your response that you love me also, I don't care. Like the flower, it is there for you to look at, to smell, see the beauty of it, it doesn't say, 'Love me' - it is there. Therefore it is related to everything. You understand? Oh, for god's sake get this! And in that self-sufficient - not in the ugly sense of sufficient, in the great depth and the beauty of sufficiency of that - in which there is no loneliness, no ambition, that is really love, therefore love has relationship with nature, if you want it, there it is, if you don't want it, it doesn't matter. That's the beauty of it.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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Posted 10/14/09 - 07:03 AM:	#4
While I'm waiting I'll try to answer ... Minyun wrote: Loneliness, what is it? I suppose loneliness denotes the longing for company, or not to be alone. What is it to be alone? Alienated from others. Isolated. Acutely individuated. Can we achieve something more than this? By "this" do you mean 'lonely' or 'alone'? Does our curiousity and thirst for knowledge lead us into loneliness? That depends. If one is faustian, I'd say yes. Otherwise, knowledge tends to be pursued for social purposes. Do names define a certain individuality in an object? Proper names might. Isn't it strange how in order for life to exist one must disobey this 'law of loneliness' and create a 'togetherness'? I think you have it backwards. We're natal creatures, that is to say, we're born to and among others, swaddled in "togetherness" as it were and from which we paradoxically learn this "loneliness" (e.g. when they leave us alone for too long ...) ( ... ) Am I alone in this thought? Language has, so to speak, seen to it already that you aren't.
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

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Posted 10/14/09 - 07:06 AM:	#5
Krishnamurti is very hard to understand sometimes. Is self-Sufficincy wrong?
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Posted 10/14/09 - 07:12 AM:	#6
Loneliness is a thirst that mere sexual encounters will not quench. Holding, or being held afterward is often a pleasant mirage. I don't want children, I don't want just one person, I don't want responsibilities, or obligations. My friends tell me that I must be lonely, never being in "real relationships", but they seem like far too much trouble than they're worth to me. I'm the kind of person that thinks that I can substitute for things that I want, that would have undesirable consequences in actuality. I think that loneliness is the feeling that no one really knows or understands you, coupled with a desire for physical consolation when we're down. I figure a few good sex-friends, and a psychiatrist should do the trick. That way I can take without giving.
"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie. "I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.