Loneliness: Philosophy Forums

Loneliness
Loneliness, what is it? What is it to be alone?

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Loneliness

unenlightened
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Posted 10/19/09 - 02:32 AM:	#31
Minyun wrote: Does that make more sense? It makes perfect sense. Alone is the state of being together as one. Loneliness is the state of being separate and fragmented.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Minyun
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Posted 10/19/09 - 03:32 AM:	#32
unenlightened wrote: Alone is the state of being together as one. What in this plane of reality, is not alone? i.e. What is 100% together? Perhaps together is similar to those things which we have trouble defining like infinity, nothing and god. An impossibillity.

unenlightened
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Posted 10/19/09 - 04:49 AM:	#33
Which plane of reality are you on? The plane of thought, of the mind, is always divided (divided from the universe?) - hence, lonely. The universe is 100% undivided - hence all-one - alone. To bring together is to unify, to make one. It is a process rather than a thing. So there is a seeming paradox that in order to achieve togetherness 'one' must start from separateness. Is this just a game of words, or is there something being said? Are we together?
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Minyun
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Posted 10/19/09 - 05:23 AM:	#34
unenlightened wrote: Is this just a game of words, or is there something being said? Are we together? In the simplest way I can, I am saying that togetherness is an illusion that can never be achieved, because we observe. I am hoping that this illustrates a point I made a while ago, about judging and crack pottery. If we want togetherness, we must refrain from observation. Else we will forever be lonely. How? I have no idea unenlighten me. Edited by Minyun on 10/19/09 - 05:30 AM

unenlightened
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Posted 10/19/09 - 06:47 AM:	#35
Minyun wrote: In the simplest way I can, I am saying that togetherness is an illusion that can never be achieved, because we observe. I am hoping that this illustrates a point I made a while ago, about judging and crack pottery. If we want togetherness, we must refrain from observation. Else we will forever be lonely. How? I have no idea unenlighten me. I'll do my best. I can look at my fingers typing, and not make a separation; it is me typing. Why should we not look at our discussion in the same way - it is us discussing? Of course, I cannot turn you into unenlightened, nor would I want to - one is more than enough! But then I do not think I am my fingers either, yet they are not separate. I don't think it is observation that separates, but this 'I' that claims to be the observer. [Minyun]If I stood on the edges of the universe and looked upon it, it would seem alone. [/quote] That 'I' that imagines itself on the edge - is this an observation, or an imagining?
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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Posted 10/19/09 - 08:18 AM:	#36
unenlightened wrote: Minyun wrote: In the simplest way I can, I am saying that togetherness is an illusion that can never be achieved, because we observe. I am hoping that this illustrates a point I made a while ago, about judging and crack pottery. If we want togetherness, we must refrain from observation. Else we will forever be lonely. How? I have no idea unenlighten me. I'll do my best. I can look at my fingers typing, and not make a separation; it is me typing. Why should we not look at our discussion in the same way - it is us discussing? Of course, I cannot turn you into unenlightened, nor would I want to - one is more than enough! But then I do not think I am my fingers either, yet they are not separate. I don't think it is observation that separates, but this 'I' that claims to be the observer. [Minyun]If I stood on the edges of the universe and looked upon it, it would seem alone. That 'I' that imagines itself on the edge - is this an observation, or an imagining? The observer I call 'me' an element of continuous change, but who is this 'I' that names me 'me'?
I know that I don't know, so I don't know if I do.

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Posted 10/19/09 - 06:39 PM:	#37
To gather... don't simply stop at togetherness... Alone is together but only at the junction prior to completeness.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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Posted 10/19/09 - 11:53 PM:	#38
unenlightened wrote: I don't think it is observation that separates, but this 'I' that claims to be the observer... That 'I' that imagines itself on the edge - is this an observation, or an imagining? Yes, this seems appropriate, it is the 'I', a sense of individuality, which leads the 'I' or 'eye' to observe. So must we refrain from the sense of self in order to refrain from observation, in order that we obtain togetherness? Is this possible?

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