Logic and math in same forum: Philosophy Forums

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Logic and math in same forum

Stefan
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Posted 08/30/05 - 03:44 AM: Subject: Logic and math in same forum	#1
Why are logic and math in different fora? It seems to me much more natural to have logic and math together, whích are closely connected a priori-disciplines, than science and math.
"I am not so lost in lexicography as to forget that words are the daughters of earth, and that things are the sons of heaven." Samuel Johnson

select
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Posted 08/30/05 - 01:48 PM:	#2
The case can equally be made that logic belongs in the philosophy of language forum. I kind of like it as it is now since logic is applicable throughout the entirety of philosophy. If we put logic inside math, that seems to imply that logic is a field of math which I believe that most philosophers disagree with.
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Paul
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Posted 08/30/05 - 01:53 PM:	#3
Dreamweaver wanted logic and language togeather at one time. It's okay with me even though I won't do it personally. I'm also okay with combining math and logic though I won't do it personally. f we put logic inside math, that seems to imply that logic is a field of math which I believe that most philosophers disagree with. It could mean that math derives from logic or logic derives from math. Most philosophers believe one of those two things. Math has more in common with logic than it does with science, wouldn't you agree? It's not as though science is limited to math like the current arrangement implies.

RandomPrecision
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Posted 08/30/05 - 02:25 PM:	#4
I recall someone (maybe Timothy) saying they required a calculus or other math class for a logic class, and I've also seen college-level logic classes that either have a mathematical prerequisite, or in one case that I hardly remember, one can take either a particular math class or a logic class. And after all, my introduction to logic, which taught me pretty much everything one has to know about simple logic, was in 9th-grade geometry, because logically proving things was an integral part of the class.

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Posted 08/30/05 - 02:33 PM:	#5
Math and logic are much more alike, and science would definitely be the odd one out of the three. It would make more sense to have math and logic as one forum, and science as another. The only reason I could see it being otherwise is because logic is something that is classically thought of as part of philosophy (most logic courses in university will be from the department of philosophy) whereas mathematics and science are thought of as separate fields.
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Posted 08/30/05 - 03:05 PM:	#6
Yes, because logic can be applied outside of mathematics. The problem is that the origin of modern logic, through Frege and Russell, has as it's focus the expression of mathematics in logic. But if you look at logic before Frege, it was seen as a guide to proper reasoning in general. Aristotlean logic would seem out of place in logic forum that is embedded in the math forum. I think Aristotle's distinctions are useful here, he sees the fields of study divided into three: mathematics, metaphysics, and the sciences. I think logic is a lot closer to metaphysics than either mathematics or science insofar as it deals with fundamental assumptions.
"To create man was a fine and original idea; but to add sheep was a tautology." Mark Twain

Paul
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Posted 08/30/05 - 03:11 PM:	#7
RandomPrecision wrote: I recall someone (maybe Timothy) saying they required a calculus or other math class for a logic class, and I've also seen college-level logic classes that either have a mathematical prerequisite, or in one case that I hardly remember, one can take either a particular math class or a logic class. Well, I took a "discrete mathematics" class from the math department that was largely about logic. Of course here we're dealing with the philosophy of math rather than math itself. Edited by Paul on 08/30/05 - 03:16 PM

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Posted 08/30/05 - 04:11 PM:	#8
Well, yes, it would make sense to put maths and logic on the same forum. But I personally prefer the way things are now. I've always wanted to take a "discrete mathematics" class, but on my college you have to first take at least two levels of calculus (which I haven't) and then an abstract algebra course. I haven't found the time or the guts to do such thing.
""Physics investigates the essential nature of the world, and biology describes a local bump. Psychology, human psychology, describes a bump on the bump." W.V.O. Quine

Paul
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Posted 08/30/05 - 09:58 PM:	#9
Oddly enough, although I checked my transcript and found that "discrete mathematics" was the official name, I don't think it was much like a normal discrete mathematics. Was a class intended for computer science majors, I recall, even though it was in the math department, and it only required calc I and really went off in a different direction from calc. I think the normal discrete math would be more like my differential equations class, which I flunked after calc II (most of the class took calc III first, which apparently I should've too). Not quite sure why I have that impression except that my calculus textbook said "discrete math" on it IIRC. an abstract algebra course I gather from google that's like my linear algebra class that I recall being not too painful of a flunking relatively speaking. Why you've always wanted to take such things I couldn't guess, but I suppose it takes all kinds to make the world, even kinds that enjoy being flogged by equations that take hours to solve. Edited by Paul on 08/30/05 - 10:04 PM

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Posted 08/31/05 - 12:56 AM:	#10
Paul wrote: I think the normal discrete math would be more like my differential equations class Strange. Discrete mathematics, if used literally, means mathematics based on discrete, that is, non-continuous series etc. Differential equations are about continuous "series". But anyway, sometimes discrete mathematics is really about computer-stuff, for some reason. I guess it is because the stuff can be applied to computers so easily. What comes to the actual issue, I think they might go well together, math and logic. Makes more sense than the science/math-distinction that we have now. But it is no big deal if it continues as it is. ~M~
Philosophy is disciplined bewilderment. A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty. http://www.beyondappearances.com

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