Like what?: Philosophy Forums

Calendar

Quick Links open

New Posts Member List

Help

Philosophy Forums » Philosophy of Language » Like what? » Like what?

Like what?

Like what?

tomv
Bee Hive Resident

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 19

Posted 04/06/08 - 07:12 AM: Subject: Like what?	#1
My question to you is, do you think that overuse of the term 'like' is an acceptable form of communication. From a linguistic point of view, it is always the youth that mould communication, hence why the older generation thus complains that the youth is dismantling said speech. But after all the research I've done, I have found no examples of a term spreading like such a virus upon communication. I still stand by my belief that "I was like..." or "And its like..." are unacceptable forms of communication.
_____________________ "The door is open, the road transformed. The exit code to civilisation is hacked beyond despair, chased by the moon toward the freeing sun, on our journey to light. This is an open plea to the beautiful insanity of your hearts. It is time to consummate the kiss of oblivion into the obsidian of love!" - Serj Tankian

modularsky
Dilettante

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 28, 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Total Topics: 7
Total Posts: 59

Posted 04/06/08 - 09:58 AM:	#2
Then you're simply conservative about the evolution (or devolution) of the english language. Whether or not the word 'like' being used so much is deficient or beneficial to English depends on whether it allows greater ease of communication and it allows more nuanced thoughts to be communicated. I don't think that this has been decided in either direction. On the one hand it assists in the use of simile to convey thoughts, but on the other hand it hobbles most speakers and prevents them from actually thinking about what they are trying to convey. In the end the English language is influenced by so many forces the inevitable outcome will be a simple, more dumbed-down language. This is already happening in countries where there is a strong economic incentive to learn English (China, India) but no incentive to learn complicated words that arguably are inessential to conveying thought. Consequently I believe that some other, more obscure and developed language (German, or French) will see a revival in intellectual literature. But in any case, if you are interested in writing philosophy or literature you are probably not someone who speaks like a valley girl, so the issue is in the end completely irrelevant to the question of whether works of genius will continue to be composed in English; this question will be decided by how much public funding so-called '1st-world' nations put towards education in the arts and humanities. This will not be determined by whether or not the 'common man' uses the locution 'like' ad nauseam.
_____________________ "Es ist der geist, der sich den Körper baut!" -Schiller

The Escapist
Supreme Being (retired)

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 92

Posted 04/07/08 - 11:57 AM:	#3
tomv wrote: My question to you is, do you think that overuse of the term 'like' is an acceptable form of communication. From a linguistic point of view, it is always the youth that mould communication, hence why the older generation thus complains that the youth is dismantling said speech. But after all the research I've done, I have found no examples of a term spreading like such a virus upon communication. I still stand by my belief that "I was like..." or "And its like..." are unacceptable forms of communication. Different varieties of speech and writing are appropriate for different occasions. This use of "like" is appropriate for current informal speech. It is entirely typical of the way language normally works, in both the creative reshaping of grammar and the way the new usage has spread. Young people who talk in this way would probably be vaguely pleased that you don't find it acceptable, that's partly the point.
_____________________ Putting someone else's smart arsed quote into your signature does not make you any smarter. - D.K

The Escapist
Supreme Being (retired)

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 92

Posted 04/07/08 - 12:29 PM:	#4
modularsky wrote: Whether or not the word 'like' being used so much is deficient or beneficial to English depends on whether it allows greater ease of communication and it allows more nuanced thoughts to be communicated. I don't think that this has been decided in either direction. On the one hand it assists in the use of simile to convey thoughts, but on the other hand it hobbles most speakers and prevents them from actually thinking about what they are trying to convey. I think the OP is talking not about "like" used in similes, but rather its use as a sort of verb, sometimes meaning "I said" or "I thought". For example: "I was like 'what do you mean?'". That apart, you take a rather uptight, moralistic view here of what is "beneficial" for a language. If I had to choose I would always take informal speech in preference to "great" literature.
_____________________ Putting someone else's smart arsed quote into your signature does not make you any smarter. - D.K

tomv
Bee Hive Resident

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 19

Posted 04/09/08 - 07:59 AM:	#5
modularsky wrote: TWhether or not the word 'like' being used so much is deficient or beneficial to English depends on whether it allows greater ease of communication and it allows more nuanced thoughts to be communicated. I would by all means say that it makes communication much harder to comprehend. I work with quite a few people who are extreme users of the term and quite often it takes me some time to understand what they were saying. It is as if ventriloquist they were putting in Bob Marley meaningless words unrelated X-Ray to the actual sentence. It makes the english language, my second language, much harder to understand, it makes it unneccesarily complex.
_____________________ "The door is open, the road transformed. The exit code to civilisation is hacked beyond despair, chased by the moon toward the freeing sun, on our journey to light. This is an open plea to the beautiful insanity of your hearts. It is time to consummate the kiss of oblivion into the obsidian of love!" - Serj Tankian

Klingsor's goldfish
Awaiting triage

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Location: A counterentropic eddy of spacetime
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 11

Posted 04/09/08 - 08:36 AM:	#6
modularsky wrote: This is already happening in countries where there is a strong economic incentive to learn English (China, India) but no incentive to learn complicated words that arguably are inessential to conveying thought. WADR Firstly, English is one of the 'official' languages of India, and its use among those who wish to 'convey thought' is as developed as in other Anglophone countries. Try talking to some educated Indians. Secondly, 'conveying thought' will need the vocabulary that is necessary to convey adequately the thought that is to be conveyed. If this means that a complicated word is all there is, then thats the word that will be used. Or those 'conveying thought' will simply be conveying (or possibly even thinking) at a more simple level.
_____________________ Looks like freedom but it feels like death Its something in between I guess.

RiyadhtheFacilitator
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Location: Seattle
Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 6

Posted 05/01/08 - 12:11 AM:	#7
It is an unacceptable form of communication. ButIi do believe it can portray, when used correctly, the closest thing to what the speaker feels is true on any said subject. Edited by hyena in petticoat on 05/09/08 - 11:44 PM. Reason: Capitalization.
_____________________ For example mammaliformes (almost mammals) and then mammals existed throughout the reign of the dinosaurs, but could not compete for the large terrestrial vertebrate niches which dinosaurs monopolized. The end-Cretaceous mass extinction removed the non-avian dinosaurs and made it possible for mammals to expand into the large terrestrial vertebrate niches.

RedPhoenix
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 14

Posted 05/01/08 - 03:10 AM:	#8
English may be an official language in some countries, but there is no official governing body to determine what is truly acceptable or unacceptable. Many scholars and people who think themselves more intelligent than others will tell the masses how to communicate "properly", but there is no "official" right or wrong in English. I view language and communication as social behavior and I believe people will always judge each other for using speech forms that differ from their own. Since the days of Aristotle and Plato, there have been written instances of people complaining about someone else (usually the younger generation, as the OP stated) using their language improperly and defiling it. Edited by RedPhoenix on 05/01/08 - 03:15 AM. Reason: spelling error

The Escapist
Supreme Being (retired)

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 92

Posted 05/01/08 - 05:20 AM:	#9
RedPhoenix wrote: Many scholars and people who think themselves more intelligent than others will tell the masses how to communicate "properly", but there is no "official" right or wrong in English. In my experience it isn't usually "scholars" who try to tell the masses how to communicate, it's people who don't have a deep understanding of the topic.
_____________________ Putting someone else's smart arsed quote into your signature does not make you any smarter. - D.K

RedPhoenix
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 14

Posted 05/01/08 - 11:03 AM:	#10
The scholars I referred to are people who write grammar handbooks and other instructional materials. How did you learn to speak "proper english?" Unless you grew up in an upper middle class or even higher income household, you probably had to go to school to learn "the right way" to speak English. I feel grammarians have as much potential to reach the masses as anyone. How much influence any particular grammarian has is certainly debatable. I would also agree that plenty of less informed people try to put in their two cents as well, as was implied in my previous post. In the past such individuals had far less potential to reach the masses, but this has changed with technology being so readily available. Getting more directly back to original question of using 'like' in this relatively new way, I use it on occasion myself and have never had anyone ask me to reword something because of such usage. I would definitely say that this usage of 'like' does not hold a place in the academic vernacular expected when one writes a paper for a class or anything of that sort. P.S. How the heck do I quote from someone else's post?

hyena in petticoat
Cheeky Possum.

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Dec 14, 2006
Location: Here.
Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 856

Posted 05/10/08 - 12:03 AM:	#11
Is it really the overusage of the term or is it the inability of the audience to get a good grasp of the context within which the comparison is being made? The word "like" is useful if both the speaker and the receiver are playing the same "language game" (as Wittgenstein might have put it). That is, if the receiver can relate to supposed similar object or event, etc. It, of course, makes understanding and communication harder and complicated if such is not the case. Since, add to the fact that the speaker is currently trying to communicate a thought, by giving an example or a comparison to which the audience can't relate, he is giving more things for the audience to comprehend. It's like, in the first situation, the speaker narrows down things specifically to what he wants to communicate. While in the second, he broadens it. Yeah... something like that. Haha.
_____________________ Running running run. If you can't say anything nice about someone, say nothing. Then creep up behind them with a baseball bat and really let 'em have it. "What's the point of goin' out and riding if you're gona be a pussy..." - Ecce

hyena in petticoat
Cheeky Possum.

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Dec 14, 2006
Location: Here.
Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 856

Posted 05/10/08 - 12:09 AM:	#12
RedPhoenix wrote: P.S. How the heck do I quote from someone else's post? See this. Edited by hyena in petticoat on 05/10/08 - 12:17 AM
_____________________ Running running run. If you can't say anything nice about someone, say nothing. Then creep up behind them with a baseball bat and really let 'em have it. "What's the point of goin' out and riding if you're gona be a pussy..." - Ecce

The Escapist
Supreme Being (retired)

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 92

Posted 05/10/08 - 01:32 AM:	#13
RedPhoenix wrote: How did you learn to speak "proper english?" Unless you grew up in an upper middle class or even higher income household, you probably had to go to school to learn "the right way" to speak English. I know you have put it in quotes Red, but still you are talking about it as if there really is some kind of "proper English". You also give an indication of what is really going on: it's a class thing. You really learn to use any language variety by using it, actively or passively (and "proper" English is just another dialect). I learned "proper" English by reading. I suggest you have a bit of a think about who "owns" the language you speak and write. Does it really belong to the middle class or even higher income household?
_____________________ Putting someone else's smart arsed quote into your signature does not make you any smarter. - D.K

sensabile
Raisy Daisy...

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: Southern England
Total Topics: 130
Total Posts: 4186

Posted 05/10/08 - 02:07 PM:	#14
The simple point to be made is that there tends to be a correlation between certain kinds of "modifications" to a language and the level of effort that goes into the corresponding thoughts. The phrases highlighted in the opening post tend to be uttered by those that have only a vague sense of what they might mean, and if they were asked to be specific would undoubtedly struggle. There is nothing wrong with this per se, but as a society I'm sure people would rather this didn't become prevalent; it's an annoyance for example, when "lazy" methods of communication are adopted by the media, since it is often coupled with lazy and dull critique.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Cuthbert
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Total Topics: 13
Total Posts: 1222

Posted 05/13/08 - 07:54 AM:	#15
I read the opening post and when tomv was like "it's unacceptable", I was like "r..e...a..lly??", and tomv was like "yep, deal with it." I don't like hate linguistic dogmatism. But like I don't like it much either. (not sure if that last 'like' is in the right place. p'raps it's "But I don't like like it much either.")

sensabile
Raisy Daisy...

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: Southern England
Total Topics: 130
Total Posts: 4186

Posted 05/13/08 - 10:36 AM:	#16
Cuthbert wrote: I read the opening post and when tomv was like "it's unacceptable", I was like "r..e...a..lly??", and tomv was like "yep, deal with it." I don't like hate linguistic dogmatism. But like I don't like it much either. (not sure if that last 'like' is in the right place. p'raps it's "But I don't like like it much either.") I think a strategical use of commas is the key to getting it right.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

RedPhoenix
Initiate

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 14

Posted 05/14/08 - 11:47 PM:	#17
hyena in petticoat wrote: See this. Like, wow! Being able to quote is like super awesome! And I like totally agree with Hyena's post. It's like totally about people like just being familiar with like the same dialect. My other posts started to stray a bit from the original question so I'm starting a new topic

You don't have permission to post.

Please login or register.