knowledge of right and wrong or impossible: Philosophy Forums

knowledge of right and wrong or impossible
Is it possible to know what is right and what is wrong?

Is it possible to know what is wrong or right and why it is wrong or right?
It is possible to know what is wrong or right and why it is wrong or right.	Heilhelm, keda	2	40%
It is possible to know what is wrong or right but not why it is wrong or right.	verta-vitae	1	20%
It is not possible to know what is wrong or right and it is not possible to know why something is wrong or right.	Absolutely Relative, alliop	2	40%
5 votes

knowledge of right and wrong or impossible

alliop
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Posted 04/24/08 - 01:12 PM: Subject: knowledge of right and wrong is impossible	#1
In another thread about god and morality the original poster stated that all moral beliefes started with at least one unjustifiable statement in which something is believed to be good simply because it is. This makes it seem as if logicaly discovering what is wrong or right is impossible. I am not saying wrong or right do not exist. I am just wondering, in light of this, is it possible to know what is wrong or right? Is it possible to know what is wrong or right but not know why it is wrong or right? Is it possible to know both that something is wrong or right and know why? Edited by alliop on 04/24/08 - 01:16 PM

Floyd
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Posted 04/24/08 - 05:57 PM:	#2
Perhaps it depends in part what definition of morality one is using. Most morality seems to be based on value judgments (what ought to be, what is good, etc.). So one can reason from premises that already make value judgments to logical conclusions that also make value judgment. But you can not discover values in the same way you discover facts. Values are opinions, not facts.
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Cuthbert
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Posted 04/25/08 - 02:29 AM:	#3
alliop wrote: In another thread about god and morality the original poster stated that all moral beliefes started with at least one unjustifiable statement in which something is believed to be good simply because it is. This makes it seem as if logicaly discovering what is wrong or right is impossible. I am not saying wrong or right do not exist. I am just wondering, in light of this, is it possible to know what is wrong or right? Is it possible to know what is wrong or right but not know why it is wrong or right? Is it possible to know both that something is wrong or right and know why? Perhaps you are both right. That is, there may be no infallible justification for any moral statement. And it may be possible to know what's wrong and right, at least some of the time. Similarly, there may be no infallible justification for statements of fact. A sceptic can challenge our knowledge of even the most obvious truths. But we still have knowledge - just not infallible knowledge. One could perhaps show that some moral statement are necessary truths, that is, to deny them is to contradict oneself. That would be one way of 'logically discovering' the difference between right and wrong. But I'm not proposing to try....

verta-vitae
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Posted 04/25/08 - 09:17 PM:	#4
alliop wrote: In another thread about god and morality the original poster stated that all moral beliefes started with at least one unjustifiable statement in which something is believed to be good simply because it is. This makes it seem as if logicaly discovering what is wrong or right is impossible. I am not saying wrong or right do not exist. I am just wondering, in light of this, is it possible to know what is wrong or right? Is it possible to know what is wrong or right but not know why it is wrong or right? Is it possible to know both that something is wrong or right and know why? I believe it perfectly natural to know what is wrong without knowing that it is wrong. A kid forced to do something he is not yet learned of knows that doing it is wrong though may not know why or what it is. I still agree with knowing that something is wrong and knowing why its wrong but I like the knowing its wrong without knowing why because it adds the human elimant to us. Adding logic to this helps for logic is purely finding the validity of a sentence, but without a conscience there is no base of right or wrong in the first place.
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emanswen
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Posted 04/26/08 - 08:13 AM:	#5
alliop wrote: In another thread about god and morality the original poster stated that all moral beliefes started with at least one unjustifiable statement in which something is believed to be good simply because it is. This makes it seem as if logicaly discovering what is wrong or right is impossible. I am not saying wrong or right do not exist. I am just wondering, in light of this, is it possible to know what is wrong or right? Is it possible to know what is wrong or right but not know why it is wrong or right? Is it possible to know both that something is wrong or right and know why? I think you are referring to one of my posts. If so, then I should apologise for being dogmatic. I should not have said that all moral standards are based on particular unjustifiable premises. What I should have said was that they were based on premises, for which I am unable to see any justification. I did not mean to imply that it is impossible to justify such moral facts (dogmatic moral skepticism); I meant only to say that I could not see any good way to do so (pyrrhonian moral skepticism).

Absolutely Relative
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Posted 04/26/08 - 10:36 AM:	#6
Knowing what is wrong or right rests in not only knowing that there is a universal value system; it relies on knowing what the universal value system says. The fallacy, as I see it, is the word 'know.' While I may believe that certain actions are wrong, persons from other places and times would disagree with me. Cortes thought that wiping out a people was acceptable to spread Catholicism. Stalin thought that human wave attacks were acceptable to blot out Fascism. FDR thought that interring Japanese was acceptable to prevent sabotage. Aristotle thought that sleeping with his students was acceptable. I detest these actions; I think these actions are wrong. I don't know they are wrong any more than I know that eating meat is acceptable. People 50 years from now (to say nothing of the next 5 minutes) will judge me wrong. 'Knowledge' based on perception is just perception.
It is what it is.

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