Knowing "How" Socially objectionable.: Philosophy Forums

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Knowing "How" Socially objectionable.
4 words. Meaning.

Knowing "How" Socially objectionable.

Cadrache
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Posted 09/29/09 - 05:19 PM: Subject: Knowing "How" Socially objectionable.	#1
I have never really understood how knowing why something happened is considered an excuse. So I thought it would be a great subject for other people to discuss.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

123savethewhales
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Posted 09/29/09 - 06:05 PM:	#2
It's just people's way of saying, they don't want to hear about it. It is much easier to dehumanize and label the individual as evil. When you talk about how it happens it brings it too close to home. It makes people uncomfortable when you put a human face into the equation. Not everyone is honest enough to say "I know how it happens, but I still want to see person x punished". You will much more likely hear "I don't care, he/she deserves to be punish regardless". At least from personal experience that's all I have seen so far.
Keep it simple.

Cadrache
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Posted 09/29/09 - 06:19 PM:	#3
The bottle broke. That is humanization? (or is it humanizisation????)
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Cadrache
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Posted 10/01/09 - 01:55 PM:	#4
Let's expand this a little bit more. Apparently there are two types of this social interaction. 123savethewhales claims that one of them is simply being vengeful. What could the other one be?
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

123savethewhales
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Posted 10/01/09 - 02:21 PM:	#5
In that case I would need to clear up what I said a bit. What I meant was that people are not always entirely honest with their use of language, and so some proxy language was necessary. The meaning isn't necessary the literal definition of the sentence being said. In a sense I reinterpreted "making excuses" as "making me uncomfortable" in this context. In this particular case involving punishment, it is easier to dehumanize than to not dehumanize them not so much out of vengeance, but simply that it brings it too close to home; that someone we know and care about can just as likely act the same way if put in the same situation. It's not something people want to think about, so it's easier to stick to the previous decision and shut out the rest. Hence it usually follows with how much he/she "doesn't care". Edited by 123savethewhales on 10/01/09 - 02:26 PM
Keep it simple.

ciceronianus
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Posted 10/01/09 - 02:28 PM:	#6
Cadrache wrote: I have never really understood how knowing why something happened is considered an excuse. I don't think it is, necessarily. Some examples of what you mean might be useful.
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."--C.S. Peirce "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it."--Marcus Tullius Cicero "Philosophy recovers itself when it ceases to be a device for dealing with the problems of philosophers and becomes a method, cultivated by philosophers, for dealing with the problems of men."--John Dewey

Cadrache
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Posted 10/01/09 - 04:22 PM:	#7
How do you use the nonsense of the last week or two? Let's go with an easy one. How does rain make you uncomfortable?
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

jaoman
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Posted 10/12/09 - 01:55 PM:	#8
Is this an outgrowth of some previous conversation? Either I've been away from this place so long that my brain has gone stale or I'm missing a piece. Are you asking the reason we stop our explanatory drive at the level of mechanical relation and don't ask how it is that this relation is maintained? In that case, I think you've switched “how” and “why” around. Or, are you asking why people are sometimes willing forgive an action or an event if they are made aware the causal chain that formed this event? Or, is it another question? Anyway, the answer to the first question is epistemological limitation of the human condition. Tragic, but difficult to overcome until the next evolution. The answer to the second question is the comfort of understanding. People mostly have negative emotions when they are dispowered. A person who is made informed of the reasons behind an event can take steps to avoid it in the future. He feels less like a victim. Also, there is a psychological aspect. A causal perspective is an objective perspective. To take it in, a person has to step away from his emotions and look the situation globally. When he does, the emotions no longer have same impact. Therefore, the vengeful drive brought about by those emotions is dissipated. The answer to the last question is, of course, entirely up to you.
"With no relation to class or social background, whether it suits them or not, people yearn for a dream. Sustained by a dream, hurt by a dream, revived by a dream, killed by a dream. And even after being abandoned by a dream, it continues to smolder from the bottom of one's heart... probably until the verge of death. A man should envision such a lifetime once. A life spent as a martyr to the god named "dream." - Kentaro Miura

Cadrache
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Posted 10/13/09 - 04:20 PM:	#9
What question? Knowing "how" is also objectionable by way of humor. The chain event is somewhat interesting. More often then not I never note forgiveness. The interchange between how and why might be an interesting application as well.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Desidude666
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Posted 10/13/09 - 11:30 PM:	#10
Cadrache wrote: I have never really understood how knowing why something happened is considered an excuse. So I thought it would be a great subject for other people to discuss. So that we adhered to it happening? Justification if that if we knew, we had the choice to stop it and we didn't. Isn't this called tacit acknowledgement, if you're quiet? You tacitly condone, thus it then is an excuse.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

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