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Karma, Reincarnation and Suicide

Karma, Reincarnation and Suicide
TempletonEsquire
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#1 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 19, 2009 - 11:41 PM:

How it's been described to me, is that we can not escape our karma, but that does not imply earth-bound reincarnation. You're approaching reincarnation and karma purely from a materialistic standpoint, as though the physical machine that you currently inhabit is the only model. Who is to say that your previous incarnation had anything to do with living in this universe?

How it's been described to me, is that we possess a certain trait, which we may see as evil, but it may just be a characteristic or even a good natured trait like giving. Yet this trait is unfit for our logical progression through whatever circus is the cosmos. So it is not that we reincarnate into a better or worse life, but that we reincarnate into an existence which is designed to remove those traits from our behavior. Some existences are by our standards quite harsh and inhumanly impossible, which is a good description of hell.

I'm not completely sure which traits are right and which are wrong, so I just defer to what a sensible person would feel is the right thing to do. No sensible person would think suicide is the right thing to do. It's almost laughably not sensible.

Minyun
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#2 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 20, 2009 - 12:47 AM:

1621 wrote:
What I don't get is this: One law of karma, widely known, states that you work your way up through the microbes, the insects, the animal kingdom until your karma is equal and then you enter human incarnation. The problem is, it also states that those who commit suicide start "at the beginning again". Before I explain this question... what bugs me is that surely karma started, some day our stars were born, then we eveolved into omoeba, then monkeys then man, with all other species in between. Surely a man today HAS been reincarnated and evolved. But karma says, back to the beginning we go Mr Suicide, your one action to kill your body, means you have to go back to stardust. How can this be? If I got back up to bird or monkey, how would I eveolve into man? Would I just jump from a dead monkey to a sperm cell?!!! This is one reason I don't want to believe in reincarnation. Perhaps it's an ancient fallacy...

You are being too literal.

1621 wrote:
If karma is timeless, by the time all the people who ever committed suicide work there way back up, our planet won't be here.


If it is timeless, then there is no sense of back and forth, or working ones way up a proverbial evolutionary ladder.

Remember that it was a human who created the concept of karma, we are not perfect, in everything that we create a human tendency will inevitably find its way into the work. Reincarnation, is energy, someone simply found out that energy never dissappears, therefor energy is passed on. An example of this, albeit a crude example, would be that your energy moves into the ground and then from the ground into the trees, from the trees into air, from air into another lifeform, and so your energy is transfered. Or... perhaps your energy was passed on through the water that had passed through a fishes gills, or a potatoe a pig had eaten.

The fact that suicide comes into play in the reincarnation principle is the human condition weaving its way into the philosophy, with anything of ancient scripture, suicide is against many philosophical laws and such it is a short cut to fulfilling a new lifeform with your energy (because perhaps you are not happy with your current form) as well as deteriorating human life in general, now obviously the human who created the principle and over time as humans have added to the principle they do not want humans following this philosophy via shortcut nor do they want to end the human race with mass suicide, it is a clause that allows the philosophy to flourish, that is all.

1621 wrote:
Some people follow dreams from birth, some people, I belive, have traits of uncontrollable wrongdoing that they have always wanted to kill someone and know how it feels, they have always had it in them to abuse a woman, child or animal and that this trait, no matter how much you belive in free will and all the help they could get, is somewhat interwined in what is going to happen in their life


These people have no sense of free will and are lead by thier habitual emotional tendencies.

1621 wrote:
IS SUICIDE BAD KARMA?


No.

1621 wrote:
AND WHERE DO YOU GO AFTER YOU DIE IF YOU KILL YOURSELF?


Your energy passes on, into the next Rhino or boxer dog. There is no heirachy of importance.

If I could address an earlier subject:

Minyun wrote:
The fact that suicide comes into play in the reincarnation principle is the human condition weaving its way into the philosophy, with anything of ancient scripture, suicide is against many philosophical laws and such it is a short cut to fulfilling a new lifeform with your energy (because perhaps you are not happy with your current form)


The reality is that you are the energy, if you kill yourself now or later, or if you have done bad things or good things, it is the energy that is doing these things, not the physical form, therefor suicide is pointless, you kill yourself and negative energy is transfered into the next object in which you will commit suicide again. It is not necessarily the form you are unhappy about, it is the energy within you, changing that energy is what the philosophy is teaching.

1621 wrote:
I like ideas from different religions but not all.


Then chose what you agree with, and follow it. We do not have to wear only one piece suits to cover our bodies smiling face
Minyun
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Posted Oct 20, 2009 - 1:15 AM:

I don't know if there is such a thing as bad karma or good karma. I know that there is such a thing as positive energy and negative energy. We are gifted by virtue of the fact that we are allowed to change that energy via the form we keep. Wether we change it or not is representative of the 'good' karma or 'bad' karma.

For example, if one had a bad energy within itself, and died without ever changing this energy, then this is 'bad' karma and is allowed to pass on to the next object. If one had a good energy within itself and died without ever changing this energy, then this is 'good' karma and is allowed to pass on to the next object. If one had a bad energy within itself, and changed this energy, then this is 'good' karma and is allowed to pass on to the next object. (You may want to re-read this paragraph over again)

So in the example of I Robot, if he had killed himself for the sake of helping another, then this is 'good karma because he wants to help another energy form (it was a child, and the longer we apply a change to energy the better/worse it becomes, perhaps he [in a karmic sense] thought that the child deserved more time to change this infinite energy into the positive, who knows what he was thinking?). If he had done it with the intention not to help, then this is negative energy thus negative karma.

The fact that he was influenced by external forces eats away at his positive energies.
swamy
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#4 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 20, 2009 - 8:49 PM:

Karma is actions that we carry out in our day to day life
Decisions that an individual takes are based subjective and objective factors
Reincarnation is a beleif for which proof is yet to be discovered.

swamy
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#5 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 2:31 AM:

1621 wrote:
Nice. Concise. Why can't I say things in as few words!#
Thanks



The main objective of philosophy is to bring in clarity in thought and express the thoughts using appropriate words.
This can be possible when our definitions to certain words are clear.

Suggestions
Think of few important words that one has used during the whole day and think whether we know the definitions to those words. It will be surprising that our definitions may not even exists, only vague ideas exists.

Seconldy look at human beings as system and see how each component of a system works.

Life is simple not complex, our limitations, weakness and some envirmonmental factors makes one's life a little unpleaure.
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Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 4:19 AM:

I reject Karma because I can't believe there is some cosmic bookkeeper keeping track of our earthly behavior. However, I do believe in a random non-karmic reincarnation in which everyone is reincarnated as everyone else. We become winners and losers, jailers and prisoners, beautiful and ugly, smart and dumb, rich and poor, etc. When we interact with other creatures in this world, we are really interacting with ourselves in every world. We become the recipients of every act of kindness and cruelty we inflict on others.

swamy
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#7 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 4:31 AM:

jsidelko wrote:
<!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> I reject Karma because I can't believe there is some cosmic bookkeeper keeping track of our earthly behavior. However, I do believe in a random non-karmic reincarnation in which everyone is reincarnated as everyone else. We become winners and losers, jailers and prisoners, beautiful and ugly, smart and dumb, rich and poor, etc. When we interact with other creatures in this world, we are really interacting with ourselves in every world. We become the recipients of every act of kindness and cruelty we inflict on others.



Reincarnation is a beleif which has no proof. Let the reincarnation be proved then further study in reincarnation can be taken.
jsidelko
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#8 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 8:01 AM:

  • swamy wrote
  • Reincarnation is a beleif which has no proof. Let the reincarnation be proved then further study in reincarnation can be taken.
Of course reincarnation can't be proven. However, this does not prevent us from discussing it.
TempletonEsquire
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Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 10:32 AM:

I think it's a fallacy to believe there are karmically good decisions and karmically bad decisions. Karma has more to do with exposure and awareness, since it defines the path which you will take. It is my belief that all paths eventually lead to what we'd term as "hell" since that is where we came from. It is my belief, that this repeating existence is merely a distraction from the inevitable inhuman suffering that our "self" will endure no matter what our actions.
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Posted Oct 21, 2009 - 5:36 PM:

People reject Karma not because of any of their answers provided. Humans have such poor sight.

Take getting up from your living room and going to the kitchen to eat. We assume that all actions for this simple 'I need food' to be along the physical plane of existence.

Yet they insist that going from the living room to the kitchen is 'a different level.'

All karma flows by way of one of Newton's laws. (sorry, have to place it within human terminology..) The law of energy states that an object in movement will not change vectors unless another force acts upon it.

If your state of being creates stardust - then your state of being will not change until you alter it.

Being a bhuddivista by way of helping another more often then not results in your next cycle as being human or becoming a rose. It's like 99.6% likelihood for the rose if you truly "help". 70% for Aphid if you help 'because Somebody sez so."
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