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Just a thought
Ethics are opinions

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Just a thought

Caldwell
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Posted 07/04/09 - 11:38 PM:	#11
unenlightened wrote: I personally deny all facts because they are based solely on personal perception and opinions derived from those perceptions. In return making facts nothing more than a set of opinions a certain group of people can agree upon... Is there something wrong with this? Yeah, there is. He started stating his opinion as a fact: "I personally deny all facts because they are based solely on personal perception...."

Maxvilly
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Posted 07/05/09 - 11:47 AM:	#12
I believe you have the right answer, and you are correct. You are 100% correct. This could be said for the Enlgish written langauge, as well as when we speak it. We express ourselves through different lines of words, some words and sentences are more powerful than others. People that can express themself properly, certainly have a giant advantage in life as they get along better with others, and influence others in to a higher degree of compassion, knowledge and understanding. I truly am jelous at them, as I only know few great speakers! The Nihilist Life wrote: what do you think?
I had details here, ones.

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 07/05/09 - 12:14 PM:	#13
"I personally deny all moralistic standards and ethical values because they are based solely on personal perception and opinions derived from those perceptions. In return making morals and values nothing more than a set of opinions a certain group of people can agree upon and through my eyes opinions are not facts. I guess I could just be in denial, what do you think?" This is a bit odd for me to grasp. The denial of a position is to place a value on a position and in itself a personal opinion. Unless you find a way to deny denial, I'm afraid you have become a victim of creating a moral standard against moral standards. We are all subjective and live under the illusion of having an objective position going beyond our limited opinions. To abandon opinion is not the way out. It is not even possible. A non choice is still a choice. It is just another illusion. To recognize the limitations of opinions and open possibilities beyond what we know would be more inviting, perhaps. Then again, this is just my opinion. Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

Maxvilly
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Posted 07/05/09 - 12:27 PM:	#14
Crackers wrote: Most nihilists do have some values I would say The thing as with all idelogies, we like to brange out and take short cuts as human beings. To an extent that we fall for cut down examples of an idelogy that in it's original was somehow rational and acceptable. If I had the intentions to work as a craftman for a new religion, I had gotten rid of great details and made it so easy a five year old could grasp my concept. I'm certain I could sell my religion and could earn me a greater fortune any day. An idelogy so powerful that people uderstand it, as they have not to put any real time(hours) in to any understanding of something that is completely new for them to understand. I follow the exact same principles as this one below mentions. O f Nihilism And this's the one right there: http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/ Nihilist to me, is to get down to great detail on nature, to rid of the influence of others that truly never suited ourselves, but I do accept ethics, morality and integrity. Systems. Here is to my point: I live in a western and highly developed nation, I never spend time worry that I live in a morality system that are unworthy on my own grounds. Are there others, that disagree? As Countries as Iraq, that manage public hangings of homosexuals, and stone a woman if she denies marriage, marriage that their parents pick up for them. What do members have in their mind when they state that this branch of philosophy, as it was clearly lined from the OP is a questionable field in how mankind and society force us to work together. If we lived in IRAQ, I had shown compassion with everybody feeling bad about themself, and then I could see why these members are upset. But when we live in a developed country, like France, Germany, USA, Canada, Finland - What are we trying to either >prove<, I like to hear it from members herein, as I've put time into understand how different brains are connected in belief systems, but I yet to get to any sum from parts in this field. And my only option is to ask members who could reflect over their own belief. Edited by Maxvilly on 07/09/09 - 02:27 AM
I had details here, ones.

Crackers
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Posted 07/05/09 - 01:17 PM:

#15

The Nihilist Life wrote:
I personally deny all moralistic standards and ethical values because they are based solely on personal perception and opinions derived from those perceptions. In return making morals and values nothing more than a set of opinions a certain group of people can agree upon and through my eyes opinions are not facts. I guess I could just be in denial, what do you think?

I think that you assume that opinion has no value itself. Sure there might be no objective morals and sure morality is based solely on personal perception, but that does not mean they should be completely rejected. Man thrives on value, it provides motivation and passion whereas the nihilist is defined by apathy and indifference.

onisani
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Posted 07/06/09 - 02:27 PM: Subject: facts vs beliefs	#16
Don't confuse beliefs (opinions if you prefer) with facts; they are two different things. A fact is a statement about the world which is held to be true because it has not been proven false (yet), although it could be proven false. Also, a fact cannot be proven to be true (e.g. gravity: no matter how many times a stone falls to the earth when I drop it, I can never be sure it won't fly away next time). Facts are falsifiable but not verifiable. If ever they are falsified, they cease to be facts, and a new statement becomes a fact instead. A belief on the other hand is not falsifiable. Whereas the statement "If I drop a stone it falls to the floor" can be proven wrong simply by dropping one that flies away, the statement "stealing is bad/wrong/evil" cannot. It therefore does not qualify as a fact. I think this gets to the point of the original posting: values, beliefs, opinions etc. don't exist independently of a person who holds them. Gravity does. And because one's belief that stealing is wrong may be influenced by one's upbringing, society, and even genes doesn't make it a fact. It is an arbitrary belief. Yes, it may make life in a society of people more comfortable, but that doesn't make it true. I look forward to reading your comments!

xzJoel
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Posted 07/06/09 - 02:59 PM:	#17
"A fact is a statement about the world which is held to be true because it has not been proven false . . ." Onisani, There is a giant 1,000,000 ton dragon that lives up my butt. It has a gold head and invisible teeth. Since this has yet to be falsified (I just made it up after all), is it a fact in your world? Perhaps you want to have a bit more substance to what you would call a fact? Edited by xzJoel on 07/06/09 - 04:15 PM
Make a joyous noise onto the lord... Not a good one, just a joyous one.

Banno
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Posted 07/06/09 - 03:19 PM:	#18
unenlightened wrote: I personally deny all facts because they are based solely on personal perception and opinions derived from those perceptions. In return making facts nothing more than a set of opinions a certain group of people can agree upon... Is there something wrong with this? Presumably we exclude the self-evident truth that everything is a goat; so that you are obliged to conclude: That everything is a goat is a truth but not a fact. Sounds fine to me.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

onisani
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Posted 07/07/09 - 07:19 AM:	#19
Hey xzJoel, nice point. What I meant though is that it is possible to falsify a fact (quite easy in your example, although not very appealing), but not a belief. I guess statements that could be falsified but no one bothers to are special cases, but they generally don't exist in serious debates. Let me know what you think...

Destrudo
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Posted 07/07/09 - 07:54 AM:	#20
Morality is a system that allows humans to exist together in communities. Communities are generally stronger than individuals. A problem arises however when morality becomes outdated. when morality fails to improve survivability of a community then it is necessary for morals to change to avoid extinction. This is why it is important to realize that morality is not an absolute truth. Of course if the servile masses all start questioning morality then there is anarchy which is also very unproductive.

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