Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life?: Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » Philosophy of Science » Science » Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life? » Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life?

Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life?

Page: 1 2

Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life?

Ratheius Netheros
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 15, 2005

Total Topics: 49
Total Posts: 304

Posted 08/05/09 - 11:52 AM: Subject: Is there a scientific consensus on extraterrestrial life?	#1
I've been reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. A known skeptic of religious viewpoints because of their lack of verifiability and probability. To my surprise, Dawkins mentions he is a supporter of SETI and believes there is extraterrestrial life in the universe. Does he mean intelligent life? I thought it was the opinion of most scientists that belief in "aliens" was science-fiction and utter nonsense? Is there a scientific consensus on the probability of "aliens existing?"

Cadrache
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Location: AB, Canada

Total Topics: 104
Total Posts: 2644

Posted 08/05/09 - 03:09 PM:	#2
I've been reading "The varieties of scientific experience" by Carl Sagan. The simple answer is no. The first hint is the fact that you questioned what constitutes extreterrestrial life. You should go look up information about the abundance of organic molecules found on the other planets and comets of our solar system. That part was quite interesting.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

newtonsapple
Unemployable thinker

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 44

Posted 08/06/09 - 02:44 AM:	#3
If aliens exist it is far more likely they won't be like be us. The chances of life, let alone intelligent life, are so infitessimal - it's surprising I am writing to you now. I think if there was life out there, we may not recognise it as such. There is absolutely no reason to presume that they will be bipedual, carbon-based, oxygen-breathing life-forms. They may be like a gas, or a liquid, as small as a a microbe or as big as a planet. We simply don't know anything about the existance of other intelligent life to presume so much anthropocentrism.
"Is it possible that existence is our exile and nothingness our home?"

123savethewhales
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 25, 2009

Total Topics: 7
Total Posts: 345

Posted 08/06/09 - 03:08 AM:	#4
Well the way I see it, if virus are consider non living, we are defining life in such a narrow term that we most likely won't be able to find any outside of Earth. Take Mimivirus for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus I think this brings up interesting questions on how life is define today.
Keep it simple.

Protip
Thought Manager

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 29, 2008

Total Topics: 3
Total Posts: 61

Posted 08/06/09 - 05:00 AM:	#5
I don't know how anyone can mention probabilities without having a grasp on how big outer space is. If it's infinite, even the tiniest probabilities should be satisfied somewhere, and if it isn't infinite... then what's the deal? Without having a thorough understanding of the above, I think we have to assume that there are probably a lot of aliens out there. That seems like the default stance given what we do and do not know. I think to say otherwise would at least require some theory on the limits of outer space. No?

Phaedruswax
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 104

Posted 08/06/09 - 05:17 AM:	#6
Protip wrote: I don't know how anyone can mention probabilities without having a grasp on how big outer space is. If it's infinite, even the tiniest probabilities should be satisfied somewhere, and if it isn't infinite... then what's the deal? Without having a thorough understanding of the above, I think we have to assume that there are probably a lot of aliens out there. That seems like the default stance given what we do and do not know. I think to say otherwise would at least require some theory on the limits of outer space. No? I don't understand why anyone can mention SIZE of the universe without having a grasp on the human abstraction process and its depressing limitations... You KNOW the universe is infinite? Further more, I think you've got a very important statement backwards. It isn't "Everything that is possible will happen/has happened." Its "Everything that will happen/has happened is possible." We do not have to assume there are lots of aliens out there. Considering how long our planet has hypothetically existed, and how late our arrival is, its safe to say that we very well could be the pinnacle of intelligence in this universe.

rigelrover
Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Total Topics: 19
Total Posts: 559

Posted 08/06/09 - 06:21 AM:	#7
Phaedruswax wrote: I don't understand why anyone can mention SIZE of the universe without having a grasp on the human abstraction process and its depressing limitations... You KNOW the universe is infinite? Further more, I think you've got a very important statement backwards. It isn't "Everything that is possible will happen/has happened." Its "Everything that will happen/has happened is possible." We do not have to assume there are lots of aliens out there. Considering how long our planet has hypothetically existed, and how late our arrival is, its safe to say that we very well could be the pinnacle of intelligence in this universe. It's kind of fun not to know for sure though isn't it...
I am more interested in questions than answers; dialog than dictation. If we can reasonably believe that there is not just a breach, but a fundamentally unclosable gap between the individual mind and the ultimate nature of the reality; the primordial thing in itself, then 'true' mystery does exist.

Protip
Thought Manager

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 29, 2008

Total Topics: 3
Total Posts: 61

Posted 08/06/09 - 06:30 AM:	#8
I don't understand why anyone can mention SIZE of the universe without having a grasp on the human abstraction process and its depressing limitations... You KNOW the universe is infinite? I am mentioning human limitations and I certainly do not know that the universe is infinite. I am saying this should be addressed first. As far as I know (and please correct me if you know more than me) the generally accepted theories all point to an infinite or near-infinite universe which trivializes the mention of probabilities. Further more, I think you've got a very important statement backwards. It isn't "Everything that is possible will happen/has happened." Its "Everything that will happen/has happened is possible." Further less, I never made that statement. In an infinite universe, everything that is possible will happen. In a near-infinite universe, nearly everything possible will happen. Or possibly not, but again, this seems to be the most rational way to treat the relationship between infinity and probability givin our limited knowledge. The default. We do not have to assume there are lots of aliens out there. Considering how long our planet has hypothetically existed, and how late our arrival is, its safe to say that we very well could be the pinnacle of intelligence in this universe. How long has our planet existed, how late was our arrivel, and what does this tell us about things happening elsewhere in an infinite or near-infinite universe? Of course it's safe to say "we very well could be the pinnacle of intelligence in this universe." It's not a very bold statement. It's qualified with "very well could be" and doesn't say anything about the existence of aliens slightly less inteligent than us. What do you know that I don't know? That's why I'm here.

Phaedruswax
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 104

Posted 08/06/09 - 06:57 AM:	#9
Protip wrote: I am mentioning human limitations and I certainly do not know that the universe is infinite. I am saying this should be addressed first. As far as I know (and please correct me if you know more than me) the generally accepted theories all point to an infinite or near-infinite universe which trivializes the mention of probabilities. Further less, I never made that statement. In an infinite universe, everything that is possible will happen. In a near-infinite universe, nearly everything possible will happen. Or possibly not, but again, this seems to be the most rational way to treat the relationship between infinity and probability givin our limited knowledge. The default. How long has our planet existed, how late was our arrivel, and what does this tell us about things happening elsewhere in an infinite or near-infinite universe? Of course it's safe to say "we very well could be the pinnacle of intelligence in this universe." It's not a very bold statement. It's qualified with "very well could be" and doesn't say anything about the existence of aliens slightly less inteligent than us. What do you know that I don't know? That's why I'm here. I couldn't possibly answer your last question considering knowledge requires truth and truth is infinitely beyond our grasp. I can't know which beliefs I hold are true let alone know which beliefs you hold are true, especially if we've never completely shared our beliefs. I'll admit that from our current perspective the universe APPEARS infinite. Likewise I imagine to a blood cell within my body existence also appears infinite, even though the limitations of the blood cell to my body are apparent to us. I don't exactly see how you can posit the possibility of a "near-infinite" universe. Infinity is without end. How can a thing near no destination? Either our universe is infinite or it is not. And if there are infinite possibilities imaginable in a not infinite universe, then the majority of those possibilities will NOT happen ever. To expand on this subject, considering the size of our universe and the max speed (to our knowledge) at which things can travel (light speed), whether or not there is life elsewhere in the universe seems completely inconsequential to human existence. Suppose life exists in the next galaxy. It takes light, from our beautiful sun Sol 25,000 years to reach it.

Protip
Thought Manager

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 29, 2008

Total Topics: 3
Total Posts: 61

Posted 08/06/09 - 07:16 AM:	#10
I couldn't possibly answer your last question considering knowledge requires truth and truth is infinitely beyond our grasp. I can't know which beliefs I hold are true let alone know which beliefs you hold are true, especially if we've never completely shared our beliefs. Well if you knew more than me about what we are talking about, you might notice me saying something that indicates a misunderstanding on my part of something you do understand. You could then explain it to me. I think this is obviously what I meant and I think it's also obvious that you'd rather pick at semantics than openly explore this with me. I'll admit that from our current perspective the universe APPEARS infinite. Likewise I imagine to a blood cell within my body existence also appears infinite, even though the limitations of the blood cell to my body are apparent to us. Ok. But this is not inconsistent with anything I've said. I don't exactly see how you can posit the possibility of a "near-infinite" universe. Infinity is without end. How can a thing near no destination? Either our universe is infinite or it is not. And if there are infinite possibilities imaginable in a not infinite universe, then the majority of those possibilities will NOT happen ever. To expand on this subject, considering the size of our universe and the max speed (to our knowledge) at which things can travel (light speed), whether or not there is life elsewhere in the universe seems completely inconsequential to human existence. Suppose life exists in the next galaxy. It takes light, from our beautiful sun Sol 25,000 years to reach it. Either our universe is infinite or it isn't. It may not be as simple as that but that's fine. Both scenarios are equally mind-boggling. That's an underlying point to what I'm saying; we don't really know anything about it either way. What we do know is that we exist. So why, in the context of an unfathomably large and possibly infinite universe, would we assume that nothing else does? Again, the default position should be that a lot of aliens probably exist. Whether it is consequential to our existence or not is irrelevant.

Page: 1 2

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.