 Is Human Existence Futile? | |
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unenlightened
armature righter  Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 67 Total Posts: 8563 |
 #41
Ruminating Wanderer wrote: I'm not complaining that life is short at all. On the contrary, I think it is about 7 or 8 decades too long as it is. I'm just saying that the finiteness of life counts against it if you want to make such a big deal out of life in terms of both objective and subjective meaning. It's too long because it's not infinite? 
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Ruminating Wanderer
banned Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 20, 2009 Total Topics: 16 Total Posts: 129
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#42
Yes and No. Yes - because it would be a more rational approach to adopt in the face of the human condition and because it would prevent us from needlessly perpetuating our species and spreading the misery. And no - because we might as well make our brief time as existent beings as bearable as possible with the proviso that we don't inflict any unnecessary harm on others. Somewhere between these two positions is the best, pragmatically speaking, position to adopt but intellectually and philosophically speaking we're 'in a right pickle' as a result of by being born and we should not flinch away from recognising this if we have boundless respect for the integrity of truth. |
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Ruminating Wanderer
banned Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 20, 2009 Total Topics: 16 Total Posts: 129
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#43
"It's too long because it's not infinite?" For anything to have any real meaning it has to have an 'endurable quality'. Human life doesn't fit the bill here I'm afraid. I contend that life is too long as it is because it is more of a curse than a blessing to be born. |
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unenlightened
armature righter Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 67 Total Posts: 8563 |
#44
Ruminating Wanderer wrote: For anything to have any real meaning it has to have an 'endurable quality'. Human life doesn't fit the bill here I'm afraid. I contend that life is too long as it is because it is more of a curse than a blessing to be born. Yes, but although you do go on a bit with your contentions, they are neither enduring nor justified as far as I can see. Why should I not say, just as categorically, "For anything to have any real meaning it has to have an 'ephemeral quality'."? It is the fleeting nature of this dance to the music of time that gives it meaning and beauty; an eternal monolith is the archetype of futility. The real curse is to seek to escape birth and death. Edited by unenlightened on 12/26/09 - 10:44 AM. Reason: quotefix |
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Ruminating Wanderer
banned Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 20, 2009 Total Topics: 16 Total Posts: 129
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#45
"Yes, but although you do go on a bit with your contentions, they are neither enduring nor justified as far as I can see. Why should I not say, just as categorically, "For anything to have any real meaning it has to have an 'ephemeral quality'."? It is the fleeting nature of this dance to the music of time that gives it meaning and beauty; an eternal monolith is the archetype of futility. The real curse is to seek to escape birth and death." Because human life does not have any quality at all when it is over, ephemeral or otherwise. It is there for a few brief decades and then it is no more. "Out brief candle, out." What difference is there between this world prior to your birth and this same world a century hence when you are dead? None from your own subjective point of view. We strive, we fret, we worry, we accomplish things and then at the end of it all we are exactly back where we started from, read: oblivion. That is my definition of futility. A complete and utter lack of hope in an ammoral universe. You hope for so little. If I were to set my targets so low perhaps I could also fool myself into thinking that life has any genuine meaning other than making myself as happy or as least miserable as possible for a finite and steadily diminishing period of time. However, I for one have humility and I don't regard myself as the centre of the universe. Fancy that? What an odd notion. Are insects' lives futile and meaningless? I think so. Just blind followers of their instincts to survive and reproduce. End of story. Why then are we so different from other creatures on this Earth? We are not; we are just more intelligent is all and have the ability to wield or lives into a tale of grand heroism. There are 200 million sperm in a single ejaculation and I happen to be the result of one of those sperm fertilizing an egg. As Bill Hicks says "I've wiped entire civilizations off my chest with a grey gym sock". How cheap life really is when you actually think about it. How contingent it is on the ridiculously whimsical nature of fate. Any meaning that can be attached to this absurd farce that we call life is merely a consolation prize (and a delusional one at that) in the midst of utter despair. Still, you've got to laugh, ain't ya!  |
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unenlightened
armature righter Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 67 Total Posts: 8563 |
#46
Ruminating Wanderer wrote: You hope for so little. If I were to set my targets so low perhaps I could also fool myself... I for one have humility... No need to boast! I can only apologise on behalf of God, that the universe does not come up to your expectations, and offer you a full refund. |
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madmaxthundercats
Initiate  Usergroup: Members Joined: Aug 02, 2009 Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 34 |
#47
Ruminating Wanderer wrote: "Yes, but although you do go on a bit with your contentions, they are neither enduring nor justified as far as I can see. Why should I not say, just as categorically, "For anything to have any real meaning it has to have an 'ephemeral quality'."? It is the fleeting nature of this dance to the music of time that gives it meaning and beauty; an eternal monolith is the archetype of futility. The real curse is to seek to escape birth and death." Because human life does not have any quality at all when it is over, ephemeral or otherwise. It is there for a few brief decades and then it is no more. "Out brief candle, out." What difference is there between this world prior to your birth and this same world a century hence when you are dead? None from your own subjective point of view. We strive, we fret, we worry, we accomplish things and then at the end of it all we are exactly back where we started from, read: oblivion. That is my definition of futility. A complete and utter lack of hope in an ammoral universe. You hope for so little. If I were to set my targets so low perhaps I could also fool myself into thinking that life has any genuine meaning other than making myself as happy or as least miserable as possible for a finite and steadily diminishing period of time. However, I for one have humility and I don't regard myself as the centre of the universe. Fancy that? What an odd notion. Are insects' lives futile and meaningless? I think so. Just blind followers of their instincts to survive and reproduce. End of story. Why then are we so different from other creatures on this Earth? We are not; we are just more intelligent is all and have the ability to wield or lives into a tale of grand heroism. There are 200 million sperm in a single ejaculation and I happen to be the result of one of those sperm fertilizing an egg. As Bill Hicks says "I've wiped entire civilizations off my chest with a grey gym sock". How cheap life really is when you actually think about it. How contingent it is on the ridiculously whimsical nature of fate. Any meaning that can be attached to this absurd farce that we call life is merely a consolation prize (and a delusional one at that) in the midst of utter despair. Still, you've got to laugh, ain't ya! I do not understand how it follows from the fact that life is impermanent that life is meaningless. Perhaps it is ultimately meaningless, but as for now, while it is still occurring, it can still have meaning. Life is only meaningless to one when their life is over (and it can still be meaningful to other people, even after they're gone), but at that point you don't care that life is meaningless, you're dead. It's hard to care about anything when you're dead. If meaning can only be granted to something that is permanent, then I would say that is a very useless definition of meaning. Nothing is permanent, as far as we know. But, in my definition of meaning, the fact that you took the time to write out your post shows that you give that action some sort of meaning and you think philosophy has some sort of meaning. If you didn't think anything was meaningful, you wouldn't do anything and would probably rot away and die. |
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kkiiji
Aubrey de Grey: a vampire  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 30, 2007 Location: San Diego, California Total Topics: 58 Total Posts: 1586 |
#48
Ruminating Wanderer, did you forget that you are a human being as well? You are a human being that rationally deceived himself into pretending not to think like one, thus losing meaning in life. You are a human being that has convinced himself that his perspective is unimportant while there's not another perspective that's actually knowable. You are a human being that is pretending to be an object in the vast scheme of something that's not there, instead of just being the human being that you are. Why live such a tormenting life? For what? Truth? You think that is truth? To pretend you're not yourself? To take your rationality beyond yourself? First and foremost you'd have to justify the concept of truth beyond personal perspectives, for such a claim is most definitely up for heated philosophical discussion. Before that we simply can't proceed further. |
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LonePepsiAttempt
Initiate Usergroup: Members Joined: Jan 01, 2009 Location: UK Total Topics: 4 Total Posts: 61 |
#49
Get busy livin', or get busy diein' If you had to treat life as one giant means to an end, you'd have to try to find just what end you are searching for, agreed? (there's nothing to disagree  )In this context, the only type of end you can apply is one of personal positive value, whether that be inhibiting a negative or gaining something positive. The only generalised end ultimate goal in my opinion, is being happy (try to ignore the childish overtones - happiness can be found in many forms, we all know this). Any set goal should always be something that at least causes you some form of happiness. As such, nothing is futile if it induces happiness. Trying to give life an ultimate goal that you cannot achieve during its duration is obviously pointless. A definition of "futile" that i have found is: "Producing no result or effect." Human existence can produce a result, a relative one. As others have essentially said in this thread, life's purpose is relative. I guess what I am trying to say is that: surely human existence is not futile, if just for one second; we enjoy it. (Apologies for the incoherency guys, i'll learn one day )Edited by LonePepsiAttempt on 01/03/10 - 4:14 PM |
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JacobEbey
Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 11 |
#50
Some people I believe find religion to be the only meaning of life, others who may be non-religious might say that life is worthless. I think that life is really quite useless to me. Its sad, because I use to love living, but now everyday is exactly the same basically. I get up, go to school, go to work, go to bed, with little perks in between, so once i realized this, I figured, hmmm, well I need to find some sort of meaning in my life. So I tried many religion. I started with Buddhism, I liked it a lot, but then I realized that it made life incredibly boring and I made no impact, So then I tried Christianity, I started dedicating my life to God, but then all I kept thinking was that the whole idea of having a life on Earth was pointless because we are just given opportunities to fail, so I just kept looking forward to Judgement Day. Then Christianity slowly faded away, so I decided that there was no meaning to life and I figured I would just fill my life with fulfilling desires of the flesh. This led to many things, drugs, alcohol and trying to make myself more like the typical teenager, because I wanted so badly to be as happy as they were. It has always boggled my mind how they are not faced with these problems and are able to sustain a "normal" life and not go crazy because of these things. The meaning of life is really only one of the problems I am faced with Other problems I have are: Not being able to comprehend the universe, its so big, but there has to be an end to it, but if there is and end to it, what is after that? There can't be nothing, there has to be something on the end of it! Am I real? Are the same words I hear the same as what you hear? Colors? Am I the only person who isn't a puppet? Is everything else just a figment of my imagination? When I turn my back,does everything stop? Maybe I am just a figment of someone else imagination and I believe I can think, but really I cant. Is life predestined? The list goes on and on and on. So I know that I cannot answer these questions, yet they still boggle my mind, it seems others don't have these thoughts. Romance is another problem, If I have these thoughts, and am not sure if your real, then how am I supposed to love you? But I am to the point to where I am so lonely and neurotic that it is making me belive life is useless and I really just want to end this loneliness, but I don't want to die because I want to know these answers and suicide is the cowards way out. Why should I care if I am a coward? |
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