Is academia dead?: Philosophy Forums

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Is academia dead?

sugarhouse
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Posted 04/26/04 - 10:56 PM:	#1
With the proliferation of the internet, what use are colleges, and universities? --Is academia dead? Many institutions of higher learn are partnering with corporations and obtaining grants from NGOs. --Is academia dead? We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school. Bruce, The Boss --Is academia dead?
joined on fool's day!

DarkCloud
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Posted 04/27/04 - 08:38 AM:	#2
How would you define academia? The society of professors analyzing things consistently? Literary journals? or just intriguing thinking?

Dedalus
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Posted 04/27/04 - 05:58 PM:	#3
Academia is dying because people no longer enthusiastically choose to go there, but it is increasingly becoming a last cling at power by aimless youths with a complete lack of direction.

rabeldin
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Posted 04/28/04 - 02:16 AM:	#4
The academia is dying because it has lowered its standards to the point that your BA is practically worthless. Your comrades don't write essays, they crib them from the internet. They don't take notes, they photocopy their roomie's notes. They don't think about the class during the class, they worry about paying for their new sports car. The only way for academic institutions to regain their former glory is to become exclusive again. Instead of GPA's and SAT's, recommendations from "members of the club" should be the norm. Too bad that teaching academics have become approval seeking sychophants.
Leave no assumption unquestioned.

sensabile
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Posted 04/28/04 - 12:02 PM:	#5
rabeldin, I don't think it is the institution's fault that they have had to lower their standards. In England, at least, there has been huge pressure from the government to allow more and more students of lower quality into their establishments. I see people at my level, A-level, who shouldn't be there; yet they are very likely to go on to university. I want to go to university because I want to learn, and perhaps even stay in education at the highest possible level. I am not suited to everyday, mundane jobs because I yearn for something more. I want to be the one defining new concepts and sprinkling the seeds of progress onto society.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

weloki
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Posted 04/28/04 - 01:40 PM:	#6
Usually those programs offered over the internet are for MBAs and other "staples" of higher education. For instance, there is no such thing as getting a degree in Linguistics over the internet. Such schools that offer those onlilne degrees are acting merely as companies, trying to get as much business as possible. They actually advertise agressively to people who make the mistake of inquiring about their degrees, whereas traditional colleges and universities do no such thing. i think it is true that one could place the paper work of a course or set of courses into HTML or plain text format and set time constraints on its completion. But this leaves out some, i feel, important aspects of the traditional education. 1) for the "traditional" student (late teen years, fresh out of high school) the leaving of the nest to embark on their own life is a major step in one's life for our culture, and moving to go to college is a viable and often preferred option for many parents. The college "life" allows for comradery with one's peers, and a safe place halfway between the parents' home and the place where people are when entering the workforce. This i think smooths the transition from mom and dad's home to being a fully-functional and responsible employee. 2) There is interaction with actual human instrutors and teaching assistants, as well as study groups with peers and tutors. This is something that cannot be replaced for many people. 3) The expectations placed upon the college student at a campus, such as being at a certain place at a certain time is a kind of practice for the "real" world and is indispensable for learning what employers require. This is inherently lacking in the internet course. One could simply ask a friend to sit in on a live chat-based class in hyperspace when a student doesn't want to go to the hyperspace classroom. Lots of room for fraud online. And the comment that reduces traditional education to copying of others' notes, the absent-mindedness and superficiality of students, plagiarism and the like is not doing justice to the overall student-based academic world. Clearly, not every student is like this, and it is not fair for students who really bust their butts to succeed while actively avoiding such behavior; many students actually go out of their way to avoid being such a lazy and irresponsible student. It is not fair to make such a fallacious generalization about every college or university student, thereby concluding that a BA is worthless; instead this negative behavior shoud be creatively combated at the college or university for those who do it, and not deny most other honest and hard working students the chance to have degrees that are worth something. Would you say that people who invested tons of time, effort, and money got ripped-off? That's interesting when the person holding a Bacclaureate degree makes an average of 80% more money over their lifetimes than a high school graduate. And the average wage earning goes up with further education. This is hardly a worthless investment. Testing standards are not perfect, and i think that to get a good grade on them is merely to be able to take tests well, not necessarily having mastery over any topic or skill. Those standardized tests for entry to higher education do not in my view test intelligence, motivation, or drive, especially if one can pay to take a course on the test in advance or study for how to take it. But the standards, with tests as one, are necessary and together they are the best schools have right now for allowing entry. And not everyone gets accepted to the school they want, but could eventually get into some school. Rabeldin, what do you mean by "members of the club"? We learn from many sources, and popular media is one of them, cringing but academic instrution is unique and irreplaceable, even if it is over the internet. If many colleges and universities are partnering with corporations and receiving grants from NGOs (what is an NGO?) what is the nature of their relationship? What say do the corporations have in how the university operates? They certainly have little say in what the students learn, unless they establish a set of elective classes that the students can choose to take or not.

rabeldin
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Posted 04/28/04 - 02:54 PM:	#7
weloki wrote: ... It is not fair to make such a fallacious generalization about every college or university student, thereby concluding that a BA is worthless; instead this negative behavior shoud be creatively combated at the college or university for those who do it, and not deny most other honest and hard working students the chance to have degrees that are worth something. Would you say that people who invested tons of time, effort, and money got ripped-off? ... Of course we shouldn't generalize, but just a few (12/60=20%) students in the last classes I taught had failed the required course four times or more. Only one of them actually attempted to do the exercises. That term left me so dissatisfied that I joyfully entered retirement. Most professors will tell you that contact with good students is worth the pay sacrifices teaching implies. However, when the weak students are so numerous to leave the professor with no time to enjoy good students, money is the main reason for staying at work.
Leave no assumption unquestioned.

Dretceterini
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Posted 04/28/04 - 03:03 PM:	#8
As a retired professor at the post graduate level (I taught at this level for 20 years), here is what I have seen.. My job was to try and get people to think. Many people simply find it easier to follow. For most, schooling is just a tool needed to get a better job and make more money. In addition, the vast majority of colleges and the professors are liberal if not socialist, so I don't think education is balanced in any way.
These IS something that travels faster than light; the thoughts of an imbicile. (To paraphrase Gabrile Voisin, automotive and aircraft engineeer, 1934) Truth lies somewhere near the middle of what appears to be a paradox-ME Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -EINSTEIN

weloki
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Posted 04/28/04 - 09:22 PM:	#9
it is interesting to get the instructors' point of view. rabeldin and Dretceterini, i can appreciate what you are saying. i wonder what schools you were affiliated with... when you say: "the vast majority of colleges and the professors are liberal if not socialist, so I don't think education is balanced in any way," what do you mean by education being unbalanced? is there a way to alleviate such a condition?

timmytangohead
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Posted 04/29/04 - 12:35 AM:	#10
Dedalus wrote: Academia is dying because people no longer enthusiastically choose to go there, but it is increasingly becoming a last cling at power by aimless youths with a complete lack of direction. Youths are aimless and lack direction because of the restrictive shooling system that is imposed before higher education. There is absolutely no room for originality or inventive thought in a secondary school environment. As such it is hard to think outside the box, and for the majority (of intelligent youngsters) higher education seems like the only way to go, because they have been conditioned to think that way. A drastic improvement is needed in motivational techniques in schooling, to let youths know that there are other options, and that they should go into higher education to do something they love doing, and that it is a great oppurtunity to excell, and come up with great ideas. I would bet that most just get told they should go to uni, which is just stupid, becuase this doesnt suit everyone. This accounts for a lot of the underacheiving and lazy students that people say lowers the value of degrees. rabeldin wrote: Your comrades don't write essays, they crib them from the internet. They don't take notes, they photocopy their roomie's notes. They don't think about the class during the class, they worry about paying for their new sports car. The only way for academic institutions to regain their former glory is to become exclusive again. Instead of GPA's and SAT's, recommendations from "members of the club" should be the norm. Too bad that teaching academics have become approval seeking sychophants. I dont know anyone who has copied an essay from the internet, roomies dont do the same courses as their roomates, and so cant copy their notes, and they dont think about the class during the class because the lecturers make no attempt to inspire the students, they just presume they want to listen and take notes, even though the lecturer is uninteresting and poor. The vast majority of students actually want to work and impress themselves, but (geniuses aside) you need that spark that only and inspirational lecturer can provide. Better role models please. The way for academic institutions to regain their former glory is to concentrate less on gaining approval (as sycophantic teaching academics do indeed do) and 'star ratings' and suchlike, and more on the inspiration and empowerment of students. A much more democractic, open minded, idea fuelled atmosphere is required, at all levels of education.

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