Instilling Fear.: Philosophy Forums

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Instilling Fear.
Religion instills fear.

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Instilling Fear.

throng
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Posted 06/30/09 - 11:49 PM: Subject: Instilling Fear.	#1
I think the basis of religious induction is primarily fear. People are taught to fear God and the eternal torment of hell. Primarily two fearsome entities are professed (God and devil), so 'church' provides the only avenue of salvation. I find instilling fear in innocent children and wayward individuals despicable, so do not subscribe to what I consider to be rot. I doubt religious organization would even exist without such fearsome rhetoric. If God was actually loving and kind there would be no reason to seek systematic salvation. The violence in God’s name is simply manifested fear.
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swstephe
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Posted 07/01/09 - 12:58 AM:	#2
I think "fear" is a very small factor in churches, (especially in modern times). A church has to tread a very fine line with the congregation. Too much fear and everyone will switch to another church or stay home and "eat, drink and be merry". I think "fear" gets inverted into righteous indignation, (you aren't offending me, but my God, and I'm just trying to "save" you). Churches have to be safe havens from the primary fear -- the "sinful" world, and provide a way to rise above it. Too little fear, and you rob the congregation of their motivation to congregate. It becomes just another social club, no different than the outside world. As a kid, I looked at writings by Gandhi about non-violence. If you are against instilling fear and threats of violence in innocent children and adults, then why allow for a standing military, active political suppression and nuclear weapons -- which are a far more real threat? Accepting the latter while rejecting the former would mean you find fear and threats of violence to be useful in certain circumstances, but are rejecting possibly illusory violence while accepting real violence. Ignoring any actual existence, I think fear of God can be more constructive.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

mric
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Posted 07/01/09 - 02:15 AM:	#3
I wouldn't agree that the basis of religious induction is primarily fear. Looking at what causes religious belief, I would suggest that social conformity and family pressure are the primary element. The biggest measurable influence on religious adherence is the religious practice of your parents, rather than whether the particular religion or denomination in question is more or less fear-laden. We could make a judgement about the relative 'fear content' of different religions and denominations, and investigate whether those with a higher fear factor are more successful at cross-generational transmission. It may be a different question for conversion or evangelism. Fear is certainly part of the emotional armoury many religions use, but I doubt it is the dominant or most effective (unless you group things like fear of exclusion from the social group under that banner).

throng
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Posted 07/01/09 - 05:44 AM:

I like the reference to nations and weaponry here. Of course these are completely justified in the face of an 'axis of evil'. If people were not fearful there is no justification.

I hope to convey the very worst of the religious fear I refer to by the extreme video below. It is completely depraved, and produced by radical church in Nigeria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUeKBibBN0I

Little Africans are burned alive and chopped to bits as consequence to fear instilled in adults.

Primarily if God is justifiable it is the devil that justifies him, and 'good' countries are justified by evil ones. Many little ones are burned alive by the good old God fearing western democracies too.

Edited by throng on 07/01/09 - 05:50 AM

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dontsinktheboat
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Posted 07/01/09 - 12:17 PM:	#5
Your point here does have something to it, however I believe the fear tactic was more effective during pre-denominative Christianity due to the monopoly of religious thought that the Roman Catholics held over nearly all of Europe. I'm not familiar with other religions but I assume that similar tactics were employed. With the dissent of churches into hundreds of different denominations, people are given a choice and will naturally gravitate towards the place that makes them feel better, so it is beneficial for the churches who desire members (and thus, donations) to preach a message of good will and love. I don't think that a God is "justified" by the existence of an "anti-god" or Satan, in Christian belief or rather the fear of such thing. It may be a reason for some to believe in God but I think most people either are grandfathered in like mric said, or just trying to find reason from the chaos of this world.

TempletonEsquire
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Posted 07/01/09 - 02:36 PM:	#6
I think religion more has to do with a freedom of thought than fear. That may seem backwards, but if you think about it, religious thought is often illogical and goes against reason, and to still question your reason and pursue an irrational path takes bravery. Also, imagine the amount of heresy every significant religious writer/teacher committed against whatever religious views their tribe or culture possessed before their thoughts became commonplace. Even if religion advocates fear, the creators of it surely do not abide by that fear.

throng
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Posted 07/02/09 - 09:58 AM:

dontsinktheboat wrote:
Your point here does have something to it, however I believe the fear tactic was more effective during pre-denominative Christianity due to the monopoly of religious thought that the Roman Catholics held over nearly all of Europe. I'm not familiar with other religions but I assume that similar tactics were employed. With the dissent of churches into hundreds of different denominations, people are given a choice and will naturally gravitate towards the place that makes them feel better, so it is beneficial for the churches who desire members (and thus, donations) to preach a message of good will and love.

Very good point. Most recently the IRA and Protestant vs. Catholic upheaval - quite a mixture of religion, politics and patriotizm. Now hundreds of options are available. The religious frequent my door as do salesmen for commercial organizations. Still I find the heaven or hell is fundamental, though the delivery is most subtle, and 'fear God' is too. The objective I find is to 'save' otherwize doomed souls.

I don't think that a God is "justified" by the existence of an "anti-god" or Satan, in Christian belief or rather the fear of such thing. It may be a reason for some to believe in God but I think most people either are grandfathered in like mric said, or just trying to find reason from the chaos of this world.

I would have to agree with that.

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throng
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Posted 07/02/09 - 10:09 AM:

TempletonEsquire wrote:
I think religion more has to do with a freedom of thought than fear. That may seem backwards, but if you think about it, religious thought is often illogical and goes against reason, and to still question your reason and pursue an irrational path takes bravery.

Also, imagine the amount of heresy every significant religious writer/teacher committed against whatever religious views their tribe or culture possessed before their thoughts became commonplace. Even if religion advocates fear, the creators of it surely do not abide by that fear.

I travelled on foot through remote areas of lace w:st="on">Papua New Guinealace> where living cannibals still reside, and the introduction of Christianity there has almost stopped that dietary practice, though very few individuals still eat human flesh for specific ritualistic rites. As the tribesmen eat and drink of Christ during communion the religion is very effective in preventing cannibalism.

There is a balance in that although much murder is practiced for religious propagation, it is also reduced by the other hand.

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Posted 07/04/09 - 10:05 AM:	#9
We fear lots of things. Some people will get a fear about eternal separation from God - that doesn't seem surprising. There is much in the Bible about fear with the message being trusting God is how to overcome fear (though i don't think anyone can totally overcome fear in this world). Psalm 56:11 in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Isaiah 41:10 So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. Matthew 10:31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. And the classic line Job says: Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him Edited by nightday on 07/05/09 - 11:28 AM

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Posted 07/04/09 - 09:31 PM:	#10
throng wrote: Instilling Fear. I think the basis of religious induction is primarily fear. No! It creates hopes, also in the face of hopelessness. Religiousness develops and represents the best of what we can't be certain about. In a sense the whole is like an ongoing philosophical enterprise.
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

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