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DANMA10
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Posted 03/19/08 - 02:57 PM: Subject: Information	#1
I've heard a lot lately that the new trend might be to define information as being a crucial part of the physical world, as fundamental as matter or energy. This has been endorsed by some physicists such as Hans Christian Von Baeyer and others. I have some questions regarding the physical theories of information. . . 1.) How would the phenomenon of information relate to other parts of the physical world such as matter or energy? It doesn't seem like bits of information would be the only features of the physical world. Wouldn't it be more like matter, energy, and information are intertwined, each having a key part in the makeup of the world? 2.) How would physics therories about information relate to other new theories coming forth today, such as superstring theory? 3.) It's becoming easier to describe what information is. But what is information not? I know that information is not matter or energy, though many physicists might describe matter and energy as containing information. What are some other things information is not? Might there be anything more fundamental than information itself?

DANMA10
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Posted 03/21/08 - 01:08 PM:	#2
Any thoughts?

DJPavel
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Posted 05/03/08 - 10:17 AM:	#3
I've heard something about it too, but I become very skeptical when people start talking about something fundamental to the Universe, like Chalmer's consciousness. There's always the danger of confusing yourself on the premises before even getting off the grounds, something we see with "free will". To me, the notion of information seems to be of the same kind. To avoid this kind of confusion, all presumptions you're making when you utter "information" have to be spelled out before going any further. To me, information of X is the capacity of X to be differentiated by an agent who intepretes X to do something useful. I don't see anything esle there. In other words, I see information in the fact that there are clouds in the sky (that it will rain). I don't see, however, any information in the pattern of falling rain droplets. That is not to say there is none, however. If there is an agent who can interprete the falling rain in a manner to do something useful about it, then THAT would be the information. What else is there? DJP

Kwalish Kid
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Posted 05/03/08 - 02:49 PM:	#4
DANMA10 wrote: I've heard a lot lately that the new trend might be to define information as being a crucial part of the physical world, as fundamental as matter or energy. This has been endorsed by some physicists such as Hans Christian Von Baeyer and others. I have some questions regarding the physical theories of information. . . 1.) How would the phenomenon of information relate to other parts of the physical world such as matter or energy? It doesn't seem like bits of information would be the only features of the physical world. Wouldn't it be more like matter, energy, and information are intertwined, each having a key part in the makeup of the world? The key is that matter and energy only exist insofar as they can be said to represent a certain amount of information. Laws about matter and energy thus are laws about how information cna be transmitted. 2.) How would physics therories about information relate to other new theories coming forth today, such as superstring theory? Information is used as a means of interpreting quantum mechanics. Successor theories to quantum mechanics (like string theory, as some hope) would provide more accurate rules for the transfer and manipulation of information than QM does. 3.) It's becoming easier to describe what information is. But what is information not? I know that information is not matter or energy, though many physicists might describe matter and energy as containing information. What are some other things information is not? Might there be anything more fundamental than information itself? The definitions of what is and what is not information are often not adequately maintained. If you are really interested in the subject and plan on learning some QM, then you should take a look at the Springer publication, The Physics of Quantum Information. It's a very good text on the subject that is compiled from works by a number of different authors.
_____________________ "Scientific truth is always paradox, if judged by everyday experience, which catches only the delusive nature of things." - KM, V, P and P "A fishnet is made up of a lot more holes than strings, but you can't therefore argue that the net doesn't exist. Just ask the fish." - Jeffrey Kluger "…Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people." -Ben Stein

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