Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology: Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » General Philosophy » Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology » Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology

Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology

Page: 1 2

Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology

Sean McHugh
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 25, 2008

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 17

Posted 05/26/08 - 12:38 AM: Subject: Indian philosophy, sexuality and physiology	#1
Hi, this seems like a good forum and I'm looking for a place for any kind of feedback on topics I'm presently writing on: this is the second of two posts from my project that folks may or may not have any thoughts on- anything about the subject matter or even the related written style would be appreciated (apart from 'I don't know what the hell you're talking about'). As I say, I have a philosophy bachelors and music masters etc, and I'm very interested in illuminating the links between key notions in Indian philosophy and a range of other subjects. I guess one problem though is the frequent lack of familiarity in people with the Veda and what it means- but it's also something intuitive rather than learnt so see what you can make of this. The chunk below concentrates on the body's physical form as relating to sex and the Veda: the time it took to write is perhaps reflected by its complexity, and includes concepts not fully explained here. In our sexually repressed Western societies some of it may seem in a sense extreme, but I'm hoping it doesn't raise any problems: I'd be pleased to discuss censorship elsewhere on this impressive forum. I preface the tract with nine paragraphs of thoughts on Hindu sexuality following my last visit to India about a year ago, though they're only as a background to my own rather complex interconnections I'm tracing. As in nearby Buddhist countries Hinduism provides a powerfully contrasting set of norms for and understanding of sexuality, and key expressions of this are at the Shiva and Vishnu temples at Khajuraho and the Surya sun god temple (an aspect of both Shiva and Vishnu featuring in the Mahabharata) at Konark near Puri, a couple of states away in Orissa. Both are World Heritage sites and feature sculptures of sexual activity and sensuous human and divine forms; they're made of different stone with the Khajuraho complex somewhat better preserved- both would have been phenomenal sights in their original polished state in what was clearly a liberated medieval India. They're dated 950-1050 and 1250, before India came under the sexually conservative sway of its Abrahamic religious rulers, first the Islamic Delhi sultanate from 13-17th centuries then the Christian British to the 20th. Other examples of Hindu religious and sexual unity include works in the early Ellora and Ajanta caves in Maharashtra to the west, as well as the still ubiquitous phallic Shiva lingam and images of mortals in sexual congress with Brahma. These of course contrast fundamentally with Islam’s and Christianity’s denial, and consequently sexuality’s position in the Hindu worldview became largely theoretical: although they visit in large numbers, today Indians show some immaturity and repression in finding such images embarrassing or humorous, as indeed Asians of nearby countries don’t. Religions are interested in sex from a moral perspective that goes far beyond the fact that it can result in children someone has then to look after: their main concern is the Dionysian character of the sensation and sense of abandonment, loss of restraint and absolute negation of Apollonian principle. Carnality is then further troubling as out of this it provides a powerful transcendent experience where corporal and spiritual, subject and object, lust and love, desire and beauty are dissolved, suggesting there’s something wrong with their understanding. At the heart of human experience Apollonian structuring is seen giving way to Dionysian surge, or rather structure within this: the realm of the divine beyond us would then seem not one of abstracted love or genteel reflection but something incorporating the visceral and ruthless. Furthermore sex is the prime manifestation of the false consciousness of renunciation or reconcilability of material, sensual life in all the Abrahamic religions: secular, material life is of essential importance because it clearly merges with the sacred. St. Augustine's (4-5th c) twisted Christian doctrine though was to argue that it's through sex that 'original sin' is passed on to the next generation so that people can always be regarded as fallen, and this kind of thinking still holds sway at the root of Western thought. The Abrahamic religions accept sex has to be central to life but harbour deep uncertainties if not repressed contempt for this core level of humanity, and have problems with fornication, homosexuality and a range of sexual practices. Obviously it's the nature of the wider culture that's at fault, not our natural, God-given state. But Dharmic Hinduism isn’t such a principle-based castle-in-the-sky doctrinal religion asking to be debunked and acknowledges sexuality as an interface with the divine; indeed the sculptured figures at these sites are not only human but semi-divine and divine, expressing the unity of God and us through sexual transcendence. Shiva's intercourse with his consort Pavarti is a focus of the Khajuraho complex: needless to say the idea of God having sex is anathema to the psychotic Abrahamians- despite the Christian Virgin birth being an expression of sex with God, used instead to deny and repress sex as what God would not do or Christ be associated with. The temples’ celebration of love-making is both riotous and movingly sensuous; they display a complete and unselfconscious continuity between ordinary life, where the attention is focussed outward and things related to each other, and sexual activity where it returns on itself and makes no reference to anything else, hence being Dionysian and absolute. Everywhere sexual fullness is matched by refined and measured intelligence: there’s no loss of control, due not to Apollonian denial but to opulence paralleled by an inner order. The deities at the centres of assemblages of amorous couples are themselves very sensual and at one with the ravishment all around. At Kharjuraho only around a tenth of the sculptures are obviously erotic but all are arousing and curvaceous, embodying sexuality’s combination of detached beauty and intense desire. At Konark however almost all are erotic, there are thousands of couples having sex in endless positions all in deep bas-relief: in amongst them are images of oral sex, sixty-nine, chains of three and group sex, masturbation, homosexuality including monks giving oral sex, even sex with animals. The Sun God of the temple also reflects complex parallels between sexuality and aesthetic qualities of the sun and sunsets, and further there are musicians playing drums and wind instruments, reflecting art's divine and Dionysian nature. The figures smile across the centuries with the fantastic coordination of sexuality with serenity, embracing all of life through a knowingness that transcends affected relations with it (either sensory or intellectual): there is relative or sensory plus absolute or spiritual pure consciousness together. The two can't be separated in rational Apollonian terms, only from within the Dionysiac itself: this unity is lost in the Christian West, sexuality as fundamental indeed being the first thing that has to go. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The absolute reflected in and having unity with the relative, God in the world and us in the image of God, has essential outward expression in sex. Sex is the irreducible connection in material life of all the relative’s levels with the absolute, its hidden or unmanifest presence paralleling the unmanifest absolute’s or Self’s presence- it is humanity’s process of creation and as with the Self, necessary, immovable and entirely encompassing the foundations of our existence. Life, sex, the Self and God create and self-sustain themselves, corporeal and divine creators being the same: the nature of experienced reality is hermetic containment within sex, the Dionysiac or nataraja, the murky, clinging subject-subject relation binding all things where knowledge is in essence already complete because nothing is outside us, objective or to be learnt. Brahman is this level of totality or orgasm and has initial expression in 5th coordination in the inward, self-referential and pre-rational mental movements of masculine ruthlessness and feminine headiness, their blending in sex and the concomitant physical movements and entwining, and the mixing of sexual fluids. Moreover the nature of the Vedic explanation of sex as necessarily expanding to an infinity of interrelations is reflected in the seething and irreconcilabe nature of the whole sexual and thence wider life experience: sexual interest lies beneath but insatiably pervades the thinking mind and is subject to rising instantly to the surface with the relevant stimulus to be addressed- it is the infinite Self and inward self-relation of the Dionysiac field as structured in the relative mind. In sex one becomes two then one again in the single person finding unity with another and producing a new single person: unitary orgasm and subsequent offspring embody the Unity of the duality that is the unity and duality of the absolute and relative, Brahman or natural 8th in all conscious beings. Accordingly the body’s singular features of genitals and mouth join with another’s, their dual singularity creating a higher singularity, with the transfer of material at orgasm reflecting the loss of all subject-object distinction and even the material world only being chhandas or the same Self; a person is a complete individual in the same limited way the absolute in the relative in them is complete in itself, but the gunas’ imperative is to move forward to the highest Unity in sex. The relative is characterized by pairs of opposites or duality, complemented by the absolute’s transcending presence and in the body most features are in pairs, with the singular crotch the point of transcendental reference and indicating the final relative relation of the rest of the body’s ratios and duality, the divine in us. The anus is also singular, though exceptions to the association of singularity with erogeneity include the dual breasts and the nose, but which has particular aesthetic interest as endlessly expressed in Picasso, African and Meso-American art and elsewhere. Further the aesthetic centres of mouth and genitals produce fluids, the blending of which women have particular erotic interest in, relating to drowning and the individual self’s abandonment. Sex is the expression of the absolute in the relative and the more absolute the more powerful the sex. The more initial Self content and attractive the aesthetic coordinated mind, the more it may be expressed aesthetically in the physiology in beauty or handsomeness, particularly the face and its accuracy of features’ positioning in an infinity of lesser possibilities, unsuperfluously avoided. The whole body and psychology it reflects are infused by the Self, their complex design giving high potential aesthetics and hence inscrutable logic and insatiable attraction: the personality and body’s movement are enlivened through the coordinated intuitive mind, transcending intellectual or rationally calculating relativity, with the body per se enlivened from the crotch or aesthetic centre likewise beyond the confused ratios involved in foolish objectification in uncoordinated 3rd. The crotch is the Self’s physical expression, that which all else whether mental or physical makes ultimate reference to, yet hidden from the relative world and mind. Also the crotch in reflecting the still Self is the part of the body moving the least in its activity, doing nothing itself yet lying at the centre of the body and its activity, and hence meshes absolute and relative together. And the other naked, their head, face and mouth as the absolute mind’s outward location at the same time as the relative body to be united with indicates the unity of subject and object, the immediacy and connectedness of mental facial expression with its intuitive sensation, the fullness of giving oneself, and yet also the dissolution of affected desire due to the movement of the Self within itself and its keeping from the rest of the relative mind until orgasm. Duality becoming unity is also reflected in ejaculation issuing from the two testicles simultaneously through the singular penis, and in the separated singular chromosomes being rejoined at conception following ejaculation- unity and duality in Union. The penis moving within her parallels the Self moving within and observing itself in 5th or unaffected relation with the world where the attention isn’t lost to itself, with similar sense of space, light and freedom. The penis inside is unity and its movement separation or duality, yet uniting the two, with the character of feminine and masculine discursive minds issuing from these standpoints- women’s has the divine’s still intuition and evaluation, hence with limited issues of coordination of relative with absolute mind, and men’s humanity’s striving and rationality, subject both to achievement and imperfection in terms of coordination and relative world alignment with divine perfection. Also the more intuitively structured female discursive mind gives the point of orgasm a smoother surrounding and thus lasts longer, whereas the distinct male discursive mind, at greater distance from the intuitive orgasm, rises as a whole more specifically and directedly to it. The penis or Self within the sacred feminine or wider absolute unites the duality of the unity of psychological and sensory contact with another with the wider visceral Unity of each partner and all things being the universal Self of Brahman. All sensation impinges immediately and irreducibly on the mind but with the Self’s establishment in itself in 5th and sex, or the self in the Self and already on orgasm’s one-pointed level, sensation is seen to be the Self itself and the Self’s relation with it is thus unaffected: the attention is concerned only with the sensation or experience as far as it goes and isn’t lost in it, with the rest of the Self or mind free, though still operating from the same Dionysian field. Hence sensation’s build to orgasm and the unity of all relativity with the Self brings no compromise to the Self’s integrity, instead only transcending it further to Unity or Brahman, the world in total, already us without distinction from us or Self; similarly 5th’s separation of Self from activity and the world is reunited in 6th-8th but with the attention’s inward direction and dynamics established in unaffected order within itself. The individual subject’s or self’s establishment in the Self is also reflected in the erection in her, with relativity’s rise to orgasm and Unity then possible; her penetration also parallels the experience of her as absolute Self extending through her relative mind and body. Hence him having her psychologically is having her physically, her mind’s all-embracing, rounded, pliant character reflected in her body, with sex fully experienced but unaffected due to consciousness in the first place being the absolute in the relative, raised into relative flesh by coordination to create desire, and not being attachment to or continuous with the relative body or personality per se. Desire is accessing the other via the the coordinated mind’s awareness and touching her, with her hence making the same claim on him, so she knows she’s being touched as an embodied person. In accordance with duality seeking unity the heterosexual masculine physical and mental form is expressed only via the Y chromosome, reflecting half the X and Y genotype present in all his 100 000 million cells: the tendency towards the unexpressed half is then fundamental, with masculine discursive thought about sex only moving within the relative dualistic system, manifestly unable to find a satisfactory non-dual location for objectifying or reconciling it, and needing instead the Self’s inscrutable holism above the ground. Sex refers directly to the Self’s transcendent or immanent presence in the relative through one half of its duality being the absolute itself, the hidden immanent X, and thus epitomizes the uselessness of all relativity per se in finding understanding, truth or reconciliation of anything: the relative’s infused absolute value means the ratio-nality of duality doesn’t work and that sex and all sensation is always instant, impinging and insatiable, with our nature extending through to the field of the gunas, the Self and Unity. Moreover the relative’s duality is expressed in the chromosome pairs, their constituent double helix and its molecular base pairs. Sex is humanity’s essence with all people a product of it and orgasm the transcendent absolute and consciousness we are, lying beyond all dualistic locations and levels in the relative: a level of unity is then reflected in the partially non-dual X or Y sex cells released comparing with the separation of Self from activity in 5th, their movement towards the egg comparing with its re-engagement in 6th, and their rejoining at conception with materiality as the Self’s final aspect in 7th. The woman is already born with her eggs and doesn’t have to create them, complementing her naturally aligned psychology and contrasting with the man’s constant sperm production, complementing his need to remember the Self and align his relative Y genotype or discursive mind to create seduction and all worldly returns. Her discursive mind’s character expresses the Self’s infinite knowledge already in the mind, whereas his only the intellectual recognition and realization of it within us, to move towards omniscience on the conscious level, and all as he moves towards her in seduction and sperm towards the egg. His goal is to achieve the same coordination or given transcendental action and containment that women’s discursive mind illuminates, so that his relative mind itself does not act at all. Further the man’s appearance ages slower, giving him time to find himself and gaining character in his features, yet doesn’t live so long as the women and the eternal sacred she embodies in her insubstantial, naturally sublime discursive mind. Also men have to exercise and train to improve their physique, while women’s is there to begin with; African men however have a better initial physique than Caucasians, all as their minds have greater given masculine coordination and richness more readily expressing ruthless and focussed aspects of the intuitive Dionysiac, rather than the more poorly coordinated given minds of the articulated Apollonian. Moreover the extent of Self content has reflection in the aesthetic quality, beauty or handsomeness, of all physical features and form. Men’s dual X or Y sex cells seek unity with women’s XX- still two but pure, giving fewer issues of coordination or balance with their discursive mind’s structure reflecting the higher duality-unity duality rather than the duality that is the relative’s nature. Women reflect the perfect, divinely coordinated thought and action of 5th, approaching the absolute from the absolute in the relative, or supreme relative, whereas men initially only from the relative in the relative: these reflect Brahman and humanity, the two aspects of reality, each containing and giving expression to the other. The process of keeping the Self in the attention so the absolute in the relative isn’t lost operates at a higher level in women, with their underlying alignment of discursive mind with the absolute making them the peremptory judges of XY’s coordination achievements. Women have a thicker connection between the left discursive and right intuitive brains and moreover the Biblical Adam’s rib used to create Eve expresses her purity in only being part of Adam’s characteristics. Coordination is needed for seduction where the Self’s infusion makes the partners’ relative minds and bodies as one, with semen meeting her as the material encoding fullness of existence and paralleling fullness of masculine coordination in life. Masculine meets feminine at orgasm when the Self’s one-pointedness and ruthlessness as expressed in the character of the man’s discursive mind, more abstracted from the Self and focussed than in women and expressed physically in the erection, its unblinking one eye and ejaculation, becomes the pure absolute, Unity or Brahman for a zero-dimensional timeless instance: the absolute in the relative of his psychology is expressed and experienced the same as in her. Orgasm combines feminine and masculine characteristics in its sweetness and delicacy yet strength and ruthlessness, and still intensity with rush of activity; the other’s particular physical and mental characteristics the attraction to them consists in, the absolute in their relative, are also resolved and unified with oneself at orgasm, as genetic material from each unifies. Sex is insatiable and intellectually irreconcilable due to its transcendent reference throughout but the ungraspable, impenetrable nature is then reflected by grasping and penetration on the physical level, not for the mind to possess or reconcile objectively but to act under the gunas of nature or love as the partners’ Self and reciprocal sensation dissolve relative-absolute duality. In seduction and sex men have unity with woman, God and the world, meeting these through the faith of keeping the Self and intuitive action under the gunas, while woman and God meet man through his inmost Self’s absorption within them, expressed by the erection within her and his unqualified giving of himself to her. The devotee holds fast in worship and woman and God embrace and make him one with them, the state where each upholds the other in Brahman. Men’s and women’s psychologies, bodies and chromosomes mesh and splice together, sex being concerned with the inwardly orderly passion of getting at the other person to go fully beyond one’s simultaneous states of relative duality and absolute unity or being in the world but not of it. The genital’s shapes reflect the primary binary duality of 1 and 0 and the two basic shapes of a line, either with open or closed ends, lines being the nature of the gunas and aesthetics, the logic in the Dionysiac. 1 and its set of gunas is masculine linearity, directionality and teleology, expressive of the relative’s drive to unite with the absolute, and 0 and its set of gunas feminine holism, circularity and immediacy, expressive of the transcendental nature of unity and knowledge, given rather than caused: the relative’s activity is valid and irreducible despite being encompassed by the absolute but needs its transcendental reference at all points. Hinduism also expresses 1 and 0 in the phallic lignam and vaginal circular yoni symbols, and has reverence for the number 0’s unusual properties, both reducing all other numbers and relative logic to nothing and having close relation with infinity. A circle is formed by the vagina’s opening particularly when encompassing the linear penis, and by semicircles on either side encompassing the linear but vertical slit reflecting the vertical downward movement of the mind needed in place of horizontal rationality, which foolishly skews outwards in the uncoordinated mind in trying to reconcile sex and argue one’s way out of seduction. Moreover the erection’s movement is linear whereas the clitoris in masturbation is subject to a basic circular stimulation. Also the circular nataraja and circumscribed attention in 5th manifests psychologically in the feminine prioritization of roundedness and stasis and in the masculine movement under gunas issuing from this, and in their physiologies in the woman’s curved body and man’s sharper edges and linear erection projecting forward; 0 has closure yet endlessness with 1’s movement grounded in it, epitomized in sex. Nothing or no thing is also reflected in the woman’s lack of a penis, while her complementary sense of nothingness issues from the meaninglessness of ungrounded discursive activity that her aligned psychology avoids, and parallels the nothingness yet fullness of divine infinity, the Self, the Veda, sex, art, ethics or other edge of the relative, trans-duality gunas based phenomena. Further, there being nothing at the woman’s crotch and nothing but enveloping and fitting physiology and psychology reflects there being nothing to stop the man moving forward at every point except his own lack of coordination: the uncoordinated mind may notice ‘oh, you’re only…a person- I can deal with that’. Feminine nothingness is the infinite simplicity of infinite complexity of the Self and reflects all right action coming ex nihilo in the discursive sense and instead from the unaffected field of the gunas and 5th on-edge silence: once the man thinks about seduction in terms of reasoned steps instead of necessary peremptory action issuing from impenetrably holistic transcendental meaning, having the sense of no meaning, he’s lost. The pre-given nature of sex and the matter of what goes where is the key expression of the necessary realm of the gunas in life and the misguidedness of abstracted or intellectual rather than inner freedom, as kissing first shows. Feminine divinity indicates this basic given and locked-on nature of reality that allows infinite achievement and the unity of humanity with God: women and sex are simplicity itself rather than objectively simple things, and hence requiring fullness of coordinated mind in order not to appear infinitely complex and impossible to proceed with at all. The Self’s and her nothingness is 5th transformed understanding of life, or common sense, seduction being the test for all of life and its basis in intuitive action not thought about action, with the abstracted self-referentiality or nothingness in relative life having no flawed support possible from the discursive mind providing something- it is the pure self-self not self-other relations that are there in the background to all life activity; indeed the Self and sex from seduction are the same self-referentiality, and hence sex is consciousness and life. The man pounds her into nothing to fully have and hence be had by her, with the kept Self in 5th having dissolved all individual subjectivity to begin with; offspring also arise from nothing in the woman and seduction as the heart of life depending on nothing, and independent of the parents’ activity beyond sex’s pure intuitive action. Moreover Shakespeare plays sexually on the words one and nothing in the dialogue between Hamlet and Ophelia, and in King Lear and Richard II. The mouth in kissing also reflects 1s in the tongues and 0s in the lips and the dissolution of these dualities in their unifying, similar to oral sex with the singular mouth and genitals together. For seduction and all effective life one needs to be in the first place on the level of kissing and sex and the infinitely generating knowledge of murky Dionysian subject-subject mental relations, rather than dualistic relations with what only appears to be perspicuity and the outside world: kissing stops talk, the mouth being the organ of speech and unreferenced ratio-nality in confused 3rd. The level of talk or dissociated thought alone, whether disjointed or articulate, cannot issue for-itself transcendental kiss beyond relative ratios, nor allow finding aesthetic sexual enlivenment of her and his relative body to experience and transcend having and being had. In 5th however there is absolute reference with the intuitive mind relinquishing autonomous, circling discursive activity for the autonomous, circling play of gunas only at the edge of the relative, avoiding the absolute-relative disjunction or affected sensation, at least for IBs. Kissing and sex are also uniquely singular activities despite requiring two participants, reciprocal actions direct between them blending into the gunas’ oneness, unity from duality; for-itself sex and the absolute are then cut off from relational reality, engagement with all else stifled. The penis head and clitoris are the points of thousands of nerve endings, the physiological expression at the body’s aesthetic centre of the end of lines of relative relations or rational reconciliation, their stimulation producing orgasm, the absolute; the head is the edge of the relative at the end of the erection’s line, as also orgasm is an edge at the end of sensation. In gaining understanding, instead of thought referring to more thought there is a final but transcendental reference that then undermines all thought and reorients the attention’s activity away from thought’s groundless self-reference and towards the Self’s grounded self-reference: knowledge is contained not within interminable external rationality but within unbounded internal awareness that then connects directly with reality. The aesthetic on-edge sexual sensation from the nerve endings reflects 5th and the mind’s transcendence of ratios and establishment instead in the absolute, needed for seduction and fullness of sexual activity and life. The erection’s line being an end going nowhere else expresses the relative’s need for or referral to something beyond it, with transcendence given by aesthetic ejaculation from the end, beyond the nerve endings’ relative reference and whole body and also expressing the gunas’ forward movement; moreover the erection expands along a line with nothing stopping it, all as there’s nothing stopping someone following the gunas. Ejaculation also reflects the Self’s boundlessness and superabundance, with semen glutinous and sticky all as the Dionysiac’s stultifying, heady and inwardly interconnecting nature, and as for instance in the movement of mouth across mouth and face in sex, wheel executions scenes’ entrancement, children’s chaotic behaviour or Kinshasa’s convulsive activity- and all as seen in people’s eyes, as the Greeks observed. Moreover semen on the girl’s face is erotic due to the subject-subject relation of semen and the face being essences consisting in genetic material and genetics’ central expression in the phenotype, indeed the Dionysian swirling disappearing curves of a beautiful girl’s face are also reflected in the curves of how semen lies; further the aesthetic centres of face and genitals are similarly detailed in structure from the Dionysiac. The sex organs being carriers of the genetic material generating the whole, along with the aesthetic centres of the Self underlying the relative body, also epitomize male and female psychological characteristics. The erection’s length to width proportion approximates to that of his body, its length as his physical stature and hardness as a hard man taking no nonsense from others or her- there’s the sense in the man that his erection’s sensation is him and in the woman that his whole body is an erection. Dynamic silence or the Self referring to itself in consciousness is reflected by the man and his relation to his microcosmic erection, in the erection’s pumping action yet stillness in relation to the body, and in his genetic essence from it. And masculine persistence and focus in achieving things and overcoming obstacles is all as the drive toward conclusion in sex, his whole body particularly as experienced by her as a thrusting penis in the world, resolution and repetition negating all else; the erection of a coordinated aggressive IB man pushes into her, pushing aside any other semen all as he rightly pushes weaker others aside in life, and being in and given to her reflects his achievements in the world given to her. Conversely there’s the sense in the woman that her vagina is her and in the man that her whole body is a vagina- its 0 reflects feminine accommodation of any masculine driven rationality, the absolute containing the relative, and her psychology as naturally mirroring or reflective of him, as her offspring mirrors him. Moreover the accommodation and all women’s differences often cause disquiet and resentment in NB men whose unsupported discursive mind looks for an identity and founds it on its relative characteristics of linearity and teleology, and thence is unable to tolerate the existence of anything else. Being in the world but not of it and the Self separate to activity is reflected in the genitals’ sensation connecting with the person’s core yet having a detached quality and appearance, while masculine power and resourcefulness that searches out what is extra to himself in the relative world to unite with has expression in the genitals being extra to the body that look to unite with women and the transcendent. Sex however can’t be procured and the penis used without coordination of discursive mind and Self, absolute and relative already to be united in order for him to be further united with absolute divine woman. Women’s genitals are more integral to the body than men’s and the clitoris smaller than the penis, reflecting their ease of keeping the Self back from being lost in surface awareness and their intuitive mind’s lower level of discursive mediation. Also with coordination being a greater issue for men they are largely the seers maturing in spiritual traditions. Sex organs in sex feel like they are all there is, with the rest of the person an extension of them, all as the Self in 5th is all there is, with the discursive mind an extension and its unreferenced activity negated; the organs and 5th also share the sense of freedom, fullness and meaningfulness. Freedom issues from the organs’ extension, providing fullness of relative experience and the edge of the relative or as far as the relative goes, beyond which there is only the absolute: the erection goes so far and no further, literally an end in itself, being for itself despite simultaneously for giving of itself and hence the absolute transcending the relative. The organs also reflect the freedom of loss of individuality as associated with the main body, and instead alignment with the universal subject and gunas in the attention to the organs’ pre-given role and positioning with each other: the erection is lost in and given to her as individuality and ego is to the Self. The organs’ unfoldment in arousal parallels that of oneself and knowledge in 5th, all knowledge already being within us and as centrally expressed by the Veda’s naturally unfolding step by step exposition. Further the genitals are unexpectedly detailed structures and kept hidden due to the need for coordination in a partner, all as the Self’s self-referential complexity is hidden in circumscribed consciousness below the surface of the mind; the genitals’ self-referential movement reflects that of the Self and they are small but essential features, as keeping the Self in the attention is a small matter yet essential to life. Keeping the Self under the surface of life allows access to sex and all things- in place of the attention confusedly and ineffectively located on the surface in apparent reality. Men with coordinated relative mind see through and physically penetrate women and their pure absolute mind, as though her mind is inside and encompassed by his because of his attention both to the dualistic character of the relative and the absolute-relative duality, yet physically she encompasses him, reflecting the absolute’s supremacy: there is having and had in both directions. The Self, women and God support and in sex enfold man, his power as individually possessed neutralized in being given to her, with ejaculation stopping with her, and him just acting objectively in wordless for-itself silence. Her reticences in seduction for him to overcome, transcend and envelop further parallel the coordination he’s achieved that has overcome the mistaken intellectual and sensory distractions of 3rd- he overcomes her as he has overcome himself. Yet the relative’s possibilities that blissfully aren’t to be pursued are then paralleled by her enveloping him and the erection being fixed in her going nowhere else, just to ejaculate- freedom in containment, as in 5th. The erection is encompassed by the vagina perfectly regardless of shape, the women already easily covering for everything all as her absolute mind’s intoxication blends with his Self-intoxicated mind for his encompassing of her- as his relative mind then dissolves to transcend her claim on him from his encompassing of her, rising to Unity in orgasm; her mind also melts any groundless sense of assurance in the uncoordinated man. The erection in the all-containing environment of her also parallels all knowledge blissfully contained within consciousness and all reality within the Dionysiac. The erection is furthermore the epitome of his coordinated relative life’s all-containing one-pointedness at its absolute aesthetic centre, sex, providing overwhelming forward movement based only on the unpossessed gunas of Nature yet rational directionlessness and stasis- ‘…even though fully engaged in action he does not act at all.’ (Gita 4:20). The contained power of the masculine form in wrapt 5th is the erection and its containment before ejaculation, likewise striking forward in fullness of action from self-referential stasis: like the coordinated mind ejaculation is aesthetic, issuing from the edge of the relative body or the base of the erection where the external testicles as reflecting the separated absolute have moved upwards to unite with the body. The erection’s end is one-pointed but the rest extends through two dimensions, reflecting the absolute and his relative mind to be coordinated with it, whereas the clitoris is just a one-dimensional point, reflecting her relative mind’s initial closer alignment and as the absolute’s depiction in the Aum symbol for instance, distinct from all relativity, ratios and time. Women don’t act or intervene, as the Self and God don’t, and are concerned not to be seen to, putting the onus on the man and his relative mind operating in the relative world, but direct from the gunas and the Self. The mind’s and body’s aesthetics are the same- women’s psychology is rounded, complete and beautiful in itself but in need of a grounding influence for their attention in the relative world from masculine coordinated pointed action, all as their rounded bodies and surrounding circular aesthetic lines, as captured for instance in Giacometti drawings, are pointedly acted on and penetrated by men’s bodies. The feminine crotch is a one-pointed triangle for the erection to meet, as also expressed in the ancient sexual union symbols of hexagram and pentagram and their triangles, with the feminine more oblique in the pentagram. Also the clitoris needs strong stimulation, her pleasure depending on him accessing her and really fucking her centre, all as the need for him thence to be accessed by and intimately give of himself to her very centre, having and being had by her necessarily to the same extent, possessions possessing the possessor as much as they possess them. Sex is ruthless, annoyed and unyielding even if gentle, the Dionysiac being unrestrained: restraint means lack of inner coordination and failure to separate Self from activity and act purely under the gunas, and thus the man not finding and giving fully of himself, and not fulfilling or being good enough to her: selflessness is having her fully. Sexual sensation and the Self’s light and knowledge are self-effulgent, ex nihilo and given, and embody both the bliss of the moment and the movement and striving towards the future. The erection outwards from the body expresses the man’s and humanity’s movement forward based on the gunas separate from but paralleled by relative intellectual knowledge, his mind and right action being grounded by intuitive carnal knowledge and sex’s transcendent reference, with the fullest expression of the unity of intellect and intuition at orgasm. The erection’s self-referential movement within itself and sensation being given to and from the mind parallels the Self’s inner movement or dynamic silence; the erection’s strength and sense of line and focus also reflects 5th coordination and the success of penetrating through her aesthetic centre, having cleared her tests and defences. The keeping of his steely inner Self where nothing can get past or deceive him is the steely centre of the erection in her, his 5th given to and blended with her towards Unity: his discursive mind is penetrated through to the Self and thus all difficulties in life penetrated and negated- all as she’s penetrated, and hence in the very process of his self-realization and achievement him and the world are intimately given to her and God. She senses that she’s negated by his relative power, all while his own transcendent nature simultaneously rises through his relative existence to equally negate him, for Unity at orgasm. Proceeding along aesthetic or gunas’ lines in seduction and life, seeing there’s no reason not to with nothing to stop us, us on the level of God and absorbed of the subject-subject relation not an unbridgeable subject-object relation, is reflected in the erection’s line and movement and the ejaculation’s lines of material: movement or linear evolutionary progress is combined with its self-referential core stillness, all knowledge or semen being already generatable within us. Ungrounded linear thought however is laughable and women laugh at the penis as reflecting this- its one-pointedness needs realizing; moreover sex in repressed societies is taken to be humorous because of normative contradictions, or wrong because of its secluded for-itself or Dionysian component, yet seduction and sex in 5th is of the unity of all for-other and means to ends rationality and linearity with the self-referential absolute that underlies it. The erection also reaches up to women as men reach to God but bends self-referentially back to the body, reflecting God in us. Having and being had are unified and transcended at orgasm: the Self and not-Self duality is first transcended in 5th with the Self’s unity with the subjective self through self-referential attention and keeping of the Self separate to relative action- in life generally and in seduction specifically; it’s then further transcended in 6th with the Self’s unity with action through the experience of their similar self-referentiality- during sex specifically; and then finally transcended in 7th with the Self’s unity with materiality through its existing within consciousness, and thence 8th Unity beyond all categories- at blind orgasm specifically. Within sex, self-referential, for-itself consciousness from 4th to 7th/ 8th states is also expressed in the few minutes of congress, in the last five or six seconds of more intense stimulation, the two or three seconds of yet purer pleasure and the point of orgasm: the shorter periods as the relative gets finer and finer towards the absolute is also expressed in numerous artworks, for instance some of Xenakis’s music, Mondrain’s paintings or Angkor Wat’s architecture. Material semen is kept back ready but then unites with her at the end, all as the Self has separation until the grosser material levels of relative existence also rise to the absolute. The involuntary giving of material in ejaculation combined with hip movements upward in men is the culmination of giving to her that is her possession of the man from the start through the claim on his attention of his attraction to and subsequent possession of her: indeed the Self was always everything not just the absolute in individuals, orgasm uniting all objectification or possession with absolute unity in Unity. As with orgasm being involuntary once started all sexual sensation, along with the genitals themselves in sex, has the quality of being separate to the person rather than possessed by them, all as the Self has separation from the discursive mind and relativity: the Self’s gunas provide only the selfless sense of following in sex and 5th. Being for-itself the sensation also has a private quality in comparison with the abstracted subject-object relations of 3rd, but ejaculation blends the self-referentiality of his to her Self or the subject-subject relation with material transfer or the subject-object relation to provide the higher Unity: I am her/ God/ That. The aesthetic sight of ejaculation, particularly the sharp fast spurts and especially the one after the chambers flood at orgasm moving semen out from the penis length and giving the first small spurt, expresses the peremptory nature of the gunas in outward masculine ruthlessness, action and triumph. Sense experience in coordination is unaffected, leaving only evolutionary melioristic action moving forward in the man, centrally exampled in cutting through discursive rational thought in seduction and her confounding ruses, seeing through her to what she or hence anything is, and not lost in ideas about her, sensation or anything superficial- all as the spurts cut through. Seduction is the test of life, evidencing for her his established coordinated understanding of subject-object relative relations’ superficiality and reality of subject-subject absolute relations, for instance in seeing when and how to pick her up and hold her down: ejaculation’s vigour and violence is all as that in sex, seduction and life, with the mind’s base subject-subject stillness from which gunas act paralleled by the erection from which ejaculation occurs. The erection already has fullness, with ejaculation the Dionysiac’s superabundance and overflowing and all as the Self’s state already being complete yet action issuing from it into the relative. Him keeping the Self in the attention over time and the mind not desisting or getting lost in itself but continuing to act along the seductive aesthetic line overcomes her defences, all as the erection’s stillness but continued linear movement against her overwhelms her at orgasm: sex unites the Self’s holistic stillness and understanding of how to proceed in seduction and life with the unqualified teleological linearity or guna imperatives issuing from it- knowledge and action together. Being horizontal in sex also reflects horizontal relative thought, with the erection reaching down into her reflecting vertical absolute thought’s transcending influence and his mind’s downward reach into the murky Dionysiac; the repeated action is also the repeated remembering of or contact with the Self. Further the masculine shape is triangular from shoulders down to feet and one-pointed as in 5th, whereas the feminine is a rounded hourglass which when turned on its side to make love to her is the symbol for infinity, relating to humanity’s manifest infinity of potential through all future generations while her counterpart genital zero relating to God’s unmanifest infinity. Feet are erotic since they’re aesthetic in being at the legs’ ends, the physical edge of the relative in the human form where nerve endings are located and from which attention must return on itself, tension released immediately before the few seconds of pleasure and point of orgasm hence going down to them; being at the extremes, when exposed they may also mean the body’s whole relative form is accessed and thence the for-itself, worldly unengaged and inactive absolute in it. Similarly the for-itself body’s aesthetic centres of erect penis and clitoris being without means to ends functions in relative life lead only beyond themselves in their tensing in stimulation; tensed muscles are also erotic for instance in bondage- they can do no more and attention is directed to their inward form per se. Sexual desire and the erotic consist in the attention’s self-reference to the for-itself body, its erogenous zones and aesthetic centre, touching and playing up these, particularly in the woman with the man giving no quarter, so the person knows they’re being accessed. Moreover women arch away in sex yet at the same time press against the man, all as her denial yet acquiescence along the aesthetic line that depends on his continuing right action in seduction as in sex, the arch expressing the line and the nataraja perimeter, with the man’s aesthetically circumscribed action at its edge towards her or the Self at the centre. The primary expression of alignment with the gunas as lines is the alignment of the bodies as lines in sex, with the line of contact separating and joining feminine divine intuitive silence and masculine worldly discursive action: action is connected with the centre and away from the loss of Self beyond the edge. The woman arching outwards and the man inwards at their furthest extent at orgasm, or just after as the body responds, is also the point of fullness of the absolute’s expression in the particular characteristics of the relative body and mind, and the sense together that I am That, the absolute, or this is me, the relative: giving and taking on both sides are at their height and transcended. The Dionysiac’s writhing, convulsive nature is also reflected in the woman’s unadmitted writhing as unifying with the movements the man’s ravishing imposes, along with her pliable body and amenable psychology, and accordingly the lack of reason not to proceed with her under the gunas despite their basis in no principle: the mind is the Dionysiac. Edited by Sean McHugh on 08/12/08 - 07:45 PM

yiming
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 25, 2008

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 310

Posted 05/26/08 - 09:53 AM:	#2
Hey Sean, what is your point (no pun intended)?

Sean McHugh
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 25, 2008

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 17

Posted 05/26/08 - 03:39 PM:	#3
Hi yiming, well it's just to run this past people and see if there's anything beyond mystification. The material can't really have a point, or a beginning, middle or end in the usual discursive sense- it's just an interconnected slab of ideas.

yiming
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 25, 2008

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 310

Posted 05/26/08 - 06:43 PM:	#4
Well Sean, all this Hindu sex is magical only to westerners. The Indians themselves find it hilarious that the westerners read a lot of spiritual meaning into it. They are only too happy to trade it to the west and import for themselves the real thing:information technology from the west.

The Escapist
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008

Total Topics: 12
Total Posts: 502

Posted 05/27/08 - 02:15 AM:	#5
yiming wrote: Well Sean, all this Hindu sex is magical only to westerners. Magical? I'm a westerner and I find it tedious, and far-fetched to the point of total irrelevance.

Sean McHugh
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 25, 2008

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 17

Posted 05/27/08 - 02:41 AM:	#6
Well as paras 6-14 will advise, Hinduism also read a lot into sex in the past. But India has had 700 years of psychotic muslim and Christian overlords and at least on the surface, it's almost as messed up about sex as we are.

The Escapist
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 26, 2008

Total Topics: 12
Total Posts: 502

Posted 05/27/08 - 04:20 AM:	#7
Sean McHugh wrote: Well as paras 6-14 will advise, Hinduism also read a lot into sex in the past. But India has had 700 years of psychotic muslim and Christian overlords and at least on the surface, it's almost as messed up about sex as we are. Speak for yourself.

yiming
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 25, 2008

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 310

Posted 05/27/08 - 10:04 AM:	#8
Sean, India has no idea about anything of value. As we can all see, its culture is going down the tubes. Because things have gotten so bad, India is tottering between absolute spiritual looniness and rank materialism. I find no redeeming feature in the Indian mentality. He is either a pompous ass (if he has money) or the most miserable wretch (if he has none); either way, he is an out and out crook.

unenlightened
everything is...

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Location: Wales

Total Topics: 36
Total Posts: 3286

Posted 05/27/08 - 11:18 AM:	#9
Sean, you are over-generous; there is too much to respond to - cultures, religions, philosophies. Would it be too Apollonian of me to suggest that the celebration or veneration, or carving in stone of sexual acts, is not itself a sexual act? I would relate this imagery perhaps to the image of the cornucopia, or horn of plenty. When one has sated one's desire with the superabundance of fertility, and exhausted every conceivable variation of sensuality, one is returned to the same complete incompleteness in which the chastest kiss is equivalent to the wildest excess. I suspect that what is being celebrated in these carvings is the supreme unimportance of the physical, rather the way the cross is a symbol of redemption. But you are the expert, evidently.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Sean McHugh
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 25, 2008

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 17

Posted 05/27/08 - 06:03 PM:	#10
Okay folks, thanks for all those comments- I half thought I'd just be moderated off or thought of as beyond the pale. yiming- there's no disjunction between the spiritual and material in Hinduism: that's just more misguided Western division where really there is none. Also being a crook or deceitful is a very interesting notion that also has a spiritual dimension: there's the argument that it's right to defraud a fool, and if you're the fool you do indeed kick yourself as much as want to kick the crook. I have more notes on this, but maybe another time... unenlightened- you're suggesting that sex is satable, but it isn't, as a moment's reflection will remind you. We don't tire of it because the dualities that its unity resolves are written into our foundations, and the unity transcends the thinking mind. Sex isn't 'unimportant': if only it were that simple... By the way is this the best philosphy forum? Is it a good place for decent conversations for the thinking person? I haven't seen anything better under 'philosophy forums' on Google, but a couple of things right away aren't so good here- the site seems a bit slow and the font style and forum features are poor- there are a bunch of dubious 'smilies' but no bold, italic or colours etc, and where's my unread replies...?

Page: 1 2

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.