 If a tree falls in the forest | |
|
Nihilism
Initiate  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Total Topics: 14 Total Posts: 93 |
 #1
Subject: If a tree falls in the forest "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" I would like your thought on this, I have never tackled this question properly. |
|
rigelrover
Forum Veteran  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Aug 05, 2009 Total Topics: 24 Total Posts: 827 |
#2
Sound is a subjective phenomenon experienced by conscious agents. No agents => no sound. Furthermore, most (if not all) of our subjective experience is construed from relative empirical information collected from prior experience (whether immediately prior or relatively distantly prior); so if we are, in fact, aware that the tree has fallen in actuality and properly aware of the conditions that surround its falling, our experience with this awareness might suggest to us that a sound exists (even if we do not have 'direct' evidence) and that we hear subject to those conditions (though our biological hearing response might not have been triggered by sound waves, etc.) |
|
Nihilism
Initiate Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Total Topics: 14 Total Posts: 93 |
#3
rigelrover wrote: Sound is a subjective phenomenon experienced by conscious agents. No agents => no sound. Furthermore, most (if not all) of our subjective experience is construed from relative empirical information collected from prior experience (whether immediately prior or relatively distantly prior); so if we are, in fact, aware that the tree has fallen in actuality and properly aware of the conditions that surround its falling, our experience with this awareness might suggest to us that a sound exists (even if we do not have 'direct' evidence) and that we hear subject to those conditions (though our biological hearing response might not have been triggered by sound waves, etc.) Your an Idealist basically then. |
|
Makarismos
PF Addict  Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Location: Uk, Midlands Total Topics: 26 Total Posts: 1645 Last Blog: Can Liberalism be potent? |
#4
The answer to the querstion entierly depends upon your definition of sound. Take these two for starters: 1) A vibration of air molecules. 2) The phenomena of a concious agent that senses the vibration of air molecules. If 1) then yes it makes a sound. If 2) then no, it does not. So in answer to your question: it depends. |
|
rigelrover
Forum Veteran Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Aug 05, 2009 Total Topics: 24 Total Posts: 827 |
#5
Nihilism wrote: Your an Idealist basically then. Do you mean vs. a realist? |
|
Basso Profundo
Panpsychic Solipsist  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 21, 2009 Location: In the smallest of ponds Total Topics: 1 Total Posts: 42 |
#6
rigelrover wrote: Sound is a subjective phenomenon experienced by conscious agents. No agents => no sound.......(though our biological hearing response might not have been triggered by sound waves, etc.) Yep. Also... Pressure waves in the atmosphere will exist. If a tree falls in a vacuum, whether there is an "agent" or not, there will be no possibility of sound. If we can recognise how a biological process within the brain - perception of "sound" - can be reified, why the hell can't we do the same with all 'mental' processes such as perception, cognition, consciousness and conation (aka perceiving, 'thinking', awareness of these and willing)? Swim safe Fish |
|
Nihilism
Initiate Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Total Topics: 14 Total Posts: 93 |
#7
rigelrover wrote: Do you mean vs. a realist? Yes vs a realist |
|
wuliheron
PF Addict  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Jun 02, 2003 Location: Chesapeake, VA Total Topics: 45 Total Posts: 8011 |
#8
Why don't you take a tape recorder into the forest and find out for yourself. 
|
|
mutemaler
PF Addict  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Total Topics: 13 Total Posts: 1925 |
#9
Nihilism wrote: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" ... I think it's just their way of getting attention, and if you just ignore them they'll eventually shut up. |
|
Nihilism
Initiate Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Total Topics: 14 Total Posts: 93 |
#10
mutemaler wrote: I think it's just their way of getting attention, and if you just ignore them they'll eventually shut up. It was a general question? Why so aggressive. |
| |
||
Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.