I need some advice with regard toward my pending visit to the USA: Philosophy Forums

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I need some advice with regard toward my pending visit to the USA
What and what NOT to discuss with the locals.

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I need some advice with regard toward my pending visit to the USA

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 09/07/09 - 08:15 AM: Subject: I need so advice with regard toward my pending visit to the USA	#1
Hey To All! I am traveling to the USA. Visiting the parents before they die. I have not been there for the past 7 years and have totally lost track of what is up in the good ol' USA. I will be in the scenic Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. Lost of mountains, cows, trees, guns and partiotic flag wavers. Fair enough, I come from there, but have lived outside the USA for over 16 years now. That alone for many is a reason for accusing me of high "un-patriotism". Whatever... I am only there for 10 days, but this allows over 240 hours of potential danger if I say the wrong thing. Jack Bauer only has to deal with 24 hours, I'm envious. What is up there? What can one say or not say to avoid conflicts? What topics can one speak of and which ones should I avoid? Comparing Europe-USA is not what I want, nor a good idea. I need a language that causes as little offense as possible. Hey, these people are armed too the teeth with fire arms. Spooky! I have last spoken directly with my parents 19 months ago. E-mails are a bit more productive, as one has too actually read what is written. If not the responses are telling. On the phone it is different. This is more personal info than one needs. I know how to deal with my parental units, but the public at large scares the living hell out of me. Advice??? Anything can help. THANKS!! MEOW! Greg
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

jorndoe
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Posted 09/07/09 - 10:00 AM:	#2
A few years ago I went to live on Manhattan for about half a year. Had somewhat similar reservations, you know, like, "don't get into an area with shadows close to Central Park, especially after dark", and "dude, people there carry shutguns, and loads of ammo". Manhattan grew on me though. Not like the horror stories you hear, which takes more than your average amount of bad luck, and could happen anywhere. If Virginia is similar, I'd not really worry much. In public, just sort of melting in probably isn't too difficult, unless you have "I'm a rich tourist, please rob me!" written all over you, or walk about deliberately offending everyone. I'm guessing some common sense and some feel of situation, would be perfectly fine. Do you have a specific concern, or just in general..?
People are to themselves what they think; people are to others what they do. ∞ ∑ 1/i² = π²/6 i=1

Erik
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Posted 09/07/09 - 11:33 AM:	#3
Not exactly sure what you may want to say that you feel may cause offense to the people of the Shenendoah Valley, but first and foremost I would suggest trying as hard as possible to avoid exhibiting any sort of arrogant, you Americans are a bunch of idiots attitude. Instead, practice a little subtlety when making a point if you think it may be controversial, trying as hard and sincerely as possible to understand their position(s) before challenging it, even those positions that you may vehemently disagree with. After this you can present your views as simply another, not necessarily infallibe way of looking at things from another perspective, be it of a political, economic, cultural, or religious nature. This tactic will produce much more traction between yourself and others than simply ridiculing their beliefs straight away. Also, before jumping into more controversial issues with those you don't know very well - if indeed the opportunity arises for doing so - try to make some small talk with these lowly, uneducated, brainwashed people. Try to find some points of commonality instead of rushing ahead to highlight differences. You may come to the realize that, while they may take certain things for granted that you and/or I have grown extremely cynical about (e.g. that America is an unambiguously flawless country in every way imaginable), they may also actually be decent human beings in many ways. They may be loving, caring parents, they may be great friends who'd leap at the opportunity to help a friend or even stranger, etc. In other words, try to humanize and not condescend towards a certain segment of the U.S. population that has been stereotyped by intellectuals and "progressive" in such a cartoonish way. Some of them probably care for things other than their own property, guns,etc., believe it or not. And while they may lack your education and refined sensibilities, they may also not be as stupid and hateful as you'd previously imagined. Misinformed? Perhaps. Uncaring, narrow -minded bigots? Not necessarily. Just my opinion on the matter.
I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex. Oscar Wild

nelvan
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Posted 09/07/09 - 11:51 AM:	#4
My advice is to avoid topics on politics and religion. Certainly don't mention Obama, immigrants, terrorism, or health care. Don't mention the economic situation either. I recommend going to the store and stocking up on foods that you are nostalgic for. Visit US as a tourist. A real tourist lets say from Asia or Middle East doesn't talk trash about USA while visiting. Only conceited Europeans do that. Actually I recommend that you lie. That you tell everyone how much you miss USA, and criticize Europe as much as you can. Humor people. Why not. What you will notice is that people are fatter and have more tattoos. Thats about it. And the language has changed a bit too. Much more slang now. But I don't see much guns. Most are tucked away under the mattress. Have fun.

TempletonEsquire
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Posted 09/07/09 - 12:36 PM:	#5
America on the whole is set up in such a way that you do not have to interact with anyone on a personal level or even make eye contact. All affairs are taken care of by simple "Give me this and I'll give you that. Thank you." protocols. You really don't even need to know the language, since body language and object movement can take care of most of the intent. Then as far as small talk, it normally revolves around goods and blanket interests like cars and sports for men, and object worship and scavenging for women. Americans will talk loudly their political opinions in public, but not in a way that their asking an opinion but more when it is assured that the person or persons with them have exactly the same viewpoint (which they probably determine in private). So the conversation will be like, "I really think government run healthcare is sooo evil." "Yeah, it's like sooo evil." "I know, it's like sooo evil. It's really evil." "I know. I was amazed at how evil it is." "Really, it's just very evil." "When I thought it was good, I was like, I'm wrong, no it's evil." "Yeah I thought it was good to but it's evil." "Yeah, it's so evil." And so on into infinity. All Americans talk one sided conversations, and will avoid confrontations in public. If and when there is a confrontation, you'll just hear silence, followed by a change in topic.

ciceronianus
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Posted 09/07/09 - 01:49 PM:	#6
Well, if I were to go to Austria, I might try to avoid referring to the Anschluss, and to Hitler as its favorite son, common sense stuff of that kind. Employ the same kind of discretion over here, and your chances of getting out alive should be decent.
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."--C.S. Peirce "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it."--Marcus Tullius Cicero "Philosophy recovers itself when it ceases to be a device for dealing with the problems of philosophers and becomes a method, cultivated by philosophers, for dealing with the problems of men."--John Dewey

mutemaler
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Posted 09/07/09 - 01:58 PM:	#7
I don't know. Small hope to convince them that the "war on terror" has no more to do with terror than the "war on drugs" has/had to do with drugs. In other words nothing really at all, just a pretext for "business as usual" (rape, pillage, plunder in their modern "global" versions). That these are political terms and used to create consent. Or that the world does not "hate them because they are free" (cough, cough), but if anyone hates them it is because of what the US has done to them - and continues to do. Things which somehow never seem to be mentioned in the "world news at six". Funny, odd, tragic. We grow up learning pictures of the world, of good guys and bad guys, everyone everywhere does this, and everything really is so clear in this picture, until one day if you're lucky (or maybe just damned) you wake up to realize how little of that was ever true of your or any other country, this picture presented to us, of the present, but also of history. Might then become a man without a country, without the kind of country which they mean at least - because the picture was pervasive, it was all you had. And so no, you don't unload all of that onto somebody who clings tightly to this noble and herioc picture they have of their country and its role in the world. Because they really are fine given the chance, and they havn't been seeing from the outside for sixteen years like you. Can you imagine how you would think now if you had never left? Likely the same. So maybe just try to imagine that and that is all the "preparation" you need? You'll be seeing family and old friends anyway I assume. And the mountains, the trees, and the cows. Don't forget to talk to the mountains, the trees, and the cows. Edited by mutemaler on 09/07/09 - 02:19 PM

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 09/08/09 - 12:47 AM:	#8
Thanks for the suggestion. As for specific things, hmmm... When I grew up there the town had about 96 residents. The county had a population of about 20,000. Nice stats until one notices there were 24 gunstores in the county, 341 banks, 511 places of worship (1 being cathloic and 1 being jewish, talk about diversity!). As for politics, of registered voters, 81% were republican, 12% democrate, 4% libertatian,... I think you get the picture. Social activities are mostly school and church based. Nice but very naive and not open to change or alternative ideas. 7 years ago my visit was very unnerving. I hardly spoke about anything. Just answering simple question such as, "do you like it over there", where loaded guns. By saying "yes", I was confessing not of have moved elsewhere, but that I had basically "shit" on the USA. I have grown used to the fact than no one, really no one, has asked any questions as to what it is like in Vienna, Austria. The majority believed that Vienna, Austria was named after Vienna, Virginia. No kidding! Perhaps they believe that about Paris, Virginia as well? OK, this was 7 years ago, shortly after 9/11, war in Iraq and weapons of mass deception. I can understand the paranoia. The streets boarded with flags and mega "Homeland Insecurities". Anyone without a flag was damned. Exhuming McCarthy mixed with FOXy-News Propaganda, it reminded me of Vienna after the invasion of Hitler. (See Austria is not perfect, but has never assumed to be so.) I am worried that it has not changed over the time. Specifics, well, this health care issue will be a problem for me. I had a brain tumor removed about 19 months ago. There were many complications and things to overcome. I am fully recovered and the follow up is very good. The care here was, though painful, the best one could hope for. How much did it cost me? Nothing. The basic health care covered it all. In addition, we receive statements showing what the costs really are covered by the social insurance. Get this: 7 MRIs, 16 CTs, 3 operations under full narcose with 3 of the best surgeons in the world (one of them has the procedure named after him!), 30 nights in the Hospital, including 5 days in intensive in a artifical coma, 4 days further in intensive with a therapist to bring me back to reality from the drugs and all of the follow up (including some 21 full blood screenings) has cost just over $9000! It make me wonder why the costs in America are really so damned high? This topic needs to be avoided, I suppose? As for Obama, I don't know enough about him. I know enough to notice that the terrorists have calmed down a bit and there seems to be a tone of "yes, we might be able too" in the public there. Is this a correct assumption? We don't have FOX News. In any event, I do not like or trust ANY politicians, ANYWHERE! Kind of like lawyers, like my sister and her husband, but this one is personal. Religion is a no-brainer, not that the people of religion have no-brain, just this needs to be avoided, but as the mega church is only a two minute walk, who walks, a 2 minute drive, as starting the car and parking it talks just as long as walking. Part of the "give me convenience or give someone else death" motto of that was ever present. Is this still the case? Fortunately I have ESPN America and a lot of MLB, NFL and College Sports. I myself have "retired from cycling", due to another accident/operation in April (fully covered by insurance AGAIN), and have started up with a Baseball Team. It is like playing small college baseball and the top league is like A-League. Not bad for a bunch of skiers. The fact that at my age, I am a starting pitcher and my fastball is still around 80-85mph is either a wonder or another reason for the local to hate me. There is more opportunity to play the great american game in Austria than in the USA, as there are perhaps local softball teams, church leagues, but the real game is exclusive for the talented and the young. This could blow up in my face, just by the fact, yes I can and not they cannot. I am not an armchair quaterback. I've got game and only 6% body fat! I don't wish to harp on about the "great wonders" in Austria. No one would ask anyway. Actually to a large degree it sucks. Then again, what here sucks is not nearly so terrible as ... well in the USA they know how to make everything bigger. It is just a rant, I know, but the flight leaves in less than two weeks. In short, there was nothing of nostaliga there for me. Just relatives, no friends or any other connections. Problem is, they all know who I am. I cannot have the luxus of being invisible. I never really fit in, but alway stood out like a sore thumb, but this is not the issue. I need a feel for the current mental state of the public. I have too say something. Saying nothing is also a cause for major conflict. Any other thoughts would be very helpful. Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

xzJoel
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Posted 09/08/09 - 04:59 AM:	#9
Greg, I seriously wonder whether you are looking for advice or are just trying to insult the people in Virginia. Having lived in the lovely Shenandoah Valley, I have at least an inkling of experience with what them thar mountain folk are like. Even though I am politically off the mainstream in the U.S., at no time did I find people there either hostile to or non-receptive to anything that I had to say. It may well be the case that having been in a small university town clouded the picture, but I also spent time in Roanoke and other towns. I discussed whatever I wished to whenever I wished to with absolutely no consequence from the townsfolk or country folk. (And this was after college, so it isn’t like they were just letting the child run at the mouth.) Unless you act like an ass, there is no reason to suppose that their guns will have anything to do with your visit. Hell, even if you act like an ass, their guns are unlikely to come into play. You can hate the U.S. all you like and begrudgingly visit it if you must, but don’t pretend as if the country folk are somehow dangerous animals foaming at the mouth just waiting to get their hands on some ex-pat. If you don’t want to anger people, be civil. Political controversy is not unheard of in the south, but calling people idiots or ignorant because they don’t agree with you is likely not to endear you to anyone. Have you ever had an experience as an adult that would begin to justify your expressed fear of people in Virginia as a unique group? (By the by, I now work in Manhattan not so far from Central Park, and I can happily report that Central Park is lovely both in and out of the shadows.)
Make a joyous noise onto the lord... Not a good one, just a joyous one.

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 09/08/09 - 06:15 AM:	#10
Hey xzJoel! No I don't wish to insult them. They seem to get along just fine, but are not very open to change and really don't like it if "one of their own" abandons the country, unless it has to do with military service. Having lived there for some time and having grown up there are two different things. Atleast they are there. As for mountain folk, they aren't there any more. This is more southwest Virginia, say Hillsville or Grundy. My dad comes from Hillsville, it deserves it's name. College towns are different. Harrisonburg, Winchester, Blacksburg, Radford, and so on are different. There is diversity, but then again, the real local don't meet up too much with the academic crowd. Iowa was the same experience for me. Iowa City was like old San Francisco. I lived in neighbouring Coralville. Day and night difference. As for guns, I have had them pointed in my face every now and then and yes, more often unprovoked. I do not hate the US, I just believe it is another place in the world. No more and no less. I guess being a real local gave me insite into what the nice folks said about the "others" behind closed doors. Being a local who is now one of the "others" does make me into a target. Political controversy is not unheard of. It is still not clear that the north won the civil war, my wifes experience after 2 days there. I have never call the people there ignorant. You have managed to make the same set of assumptions as many a folk there do. I say really nothing and they put the words in my mouth. Atleast it was so 7 years ago and all of my life too this point. As for personal experiences as an adult, refusal of service at a local gas station. I was considered to be an ungrateful traitor because of my move. I still cannot remember from where I would even know these people. I was knocked off my bike by a local who believed it was his right to free expression to let his SUV do the talking. I had not said a word to him. He just assumed that I did not support the troops. My wife was threatened as she did not stand to attention and sing the national anthem at a high school football game. The fact that she is Austrian was not reason for "un-patriotic" actions. We left the game saying nothing and beer cans where thrown at our car.My mother was quite pleased about the damage to the car. So xzJoel, perhaps you can understand my hesitation of going back there again. I actually try not even to make eye contact with people, much less speak to them. My hope is that the population has increased dramatically there and there are a lot of new faces. I hope this curbs the well... hate I and my wife experienced there. Funny how we have such differing experiences. I lived in the Upper East Side for two years just before I moved to Austria. My wife and I have concluded that we will only converse in german when underways. English will only be used when it comes to unavoidable dialogues and shopping. I don't hate Virginians. I don't hate the locals there. I have no opinion about them. I wish and hope I can say the same for them. xzJoel, don't over interpret the situation. I have lost track of how people are there and what are touchy topics. I guess you can never go home again? Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

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