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I am programmed.
Military conditioning

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I am programmed.

2gontaf2
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Posted 08/31/08 - 03:31 PM:	#11
I myself am considering military service. It might prove too difficult, but I would like to try out for the army rangers eventually. Being heavily trained appeals to me, especially the psychological change that come with it. How dramatic was this mental change in you?
"Love? It's nothing but our most celebrated form of masochism." -180proof

Absolutely Relative
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Posted 09/03/08 - 09:44 AM:	#12
I had trouble thinking of how to describe the change in myself, and I can only speak for myself: My military experiences define me as a person. I am a medic, and my work gives me a reason to live. It does not supply that kind of joy to every person, nor does it necessarily make me better than anyone else. I am more confidant, more assertive, more capable than I ever would have been. At the same time I am less accepting of what I view as cowardice and parasitism than I ever would have been (does that make me mean?). The military is not for everyone, not even for most. I would advise against it if you are not committed. Know what you are getting in to.
It is what it is.

EcceQuiTollisPeccataMundi
Hanzai kienai eien ni

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Posted 09/03/08 - 10:41 AM:	#13
I would suspect that the average civilain might be a little taken back when you launch into a five paragraph order detailing how you and your friends will spend time at the beach. My friends and I have a habit of referring to civilians as disgusting, lazy - something to be ashamed of in a way. I suspect this is because in our basic training in the Marine Corps, we are taught that everything about your former life was, in fact, disgusting. W like to use the acronym SAMK when going out on the town to pick up women - Suppress, Assess, Movement, Kill. Much like SMEAC, I'm sure you share many acronyms with us here in the States, Wax. Suppress all male interference in your mission using Alpha male tactics(shit talking, drinking heavily, making it obvious that you could wipe the floor with someone even if you really can't); Assess the situation after all interference has been subdued to determine when you can start making your movement and closing with the target. Kill, well, that's mission accomplishment there. Let your imagination run wild. We have strict ideas about "muscle memory" and do contact drills while patrolling, over and over again so that when fired upon there is simply no thought, no 'medal of honor' runs that are going to get you killed when executing fire team or buddy rushes after taking contact(we like to use the quick "I'm up, he see's me, I'm down" diddy that amounts to 2 or 3 quick steps - keeps you safe and allows you to close with more effectively then getting rooted into position, obviously); magazine drills for the M16A4(I carry an M203 attachment as well) and M249 SAW disassembly/reassembly are objects of great competition. The general idea is that when the shit does hit the fan, you will not be so preoccupied with the fact that someone is shooting at you as you are simply reverted back to an instinctual creature conditioned to combat and the rigors of such. Unlike Pavlov's dog, I salivate at sounds of gunshots. I suspect that most who have the capacity to reflect upon their conditioning to any degree are somewhat amused by it, if not simply amazed. In the context of infantry life for a Marine, I can say that I often am totally baffled by some of the things I do when startled or something moves quickly around me. I'd love to read something about infantry tactics on a platoon scale, as I'm typically only concerned with a squad at most but most often just my fire team. We tend to operate in small, 4 man, quick moving cells which affords us mobility but lacking in ability to sustain ourselves for long acting more as 'shock troops' and quickly destroying whatever we are tasked to lest we be over run. However, as a squad, man, we can sustain ourselves for far longer, using suppresive fire and movement, interlocking fields of fire and utilizing our indirect fire weapons - M203 grenade launcher, for example - in conjunction with assorted small arms fire to hold a defensive position until the end comes. Respectfully, Ecce.
The Optimist: I do believe that it was a life-changing experience. From this point on, every chicken sandwich I eat will be compared to that one and I know they'll all fall short...What a terrible world. Hyena: Or you can say that with the rarity of such a chicken sandwich, all the low quality sandwiches you are going to eat from then onwards would always remind you of how lucky you are for being one of the few who have been able to taste such an extraordinary sandwich.

SIR2U
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Posted 09/03/08 - 03:18 PM:	#14
Deja-vu.
Unknown Alanic wiseman. "Ignorance and bad teeth have at least one thing in common. Keeping your mouth closed makes them both less obvious"

Kurt_Godel
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Posted 09/03/08 - 05:46 PM:	#15
I love this thread . My dad was a general in the army (now retired), and I wanted to join the forces myself (especially the air force, or any SF), but found myself too inclined towards the technical sciences to actually go through with it. I have many friends in the army, also in the SF. I've seen first hand how they have been literally transformed, both physically and pyschologically. Its the discipline that appeals to me the most. And the physical gains are obviously great to have. A toned body and a toned mind. But also the fact that the military has evolved to such an exact science, in relation to combat/survival tactics and strategies. I truly believe that military personnel are the physical and psychological elite of society.

throng
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Posted 09/05/08 - 03:13 AM:	#16
Wax wrote: when a mate threw something at me, striking me in the ear. With out thinking I was up and charged him, tackling him to the ground before he realized what was happening. In his words 'I have never seen you move so fast'. I did this without decision to move but as a conditioned reaction. I am almost a different person to who I used to be. . I am not of the military. I was reared in a voilent third world country and have on numerous occasions been the subject of fire, knife, machette and axe attacks. In misguided youth I was exposed to horrific murder and rape. I have seriously hurt others myself in defence. I have panicked and run, and stood and fought. I am a coward and a hero, my friends have both fallen and been saved by my actions. I live a passive western life now, but have dangerous instincts. Now I must completely aviod confrontation as my reaction to mild threat is far too extreme. There is a switch to primal killing to survive. It is a burden to me. When threatened I expend alot of effort so I don't turn into a murderous hulk. I can't tell if or when I will switch, so I completely avoid confrontation. I think it's less now as my environment is peaceful, but it is hard knowing the monster within.

enkidu
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Posted 09/05/08 - 07:27 AM:	#17
Kurt_Godel wrote: I truly believe that military personnel are the physical and psychological elite of society. I juts wish to react to this little piece. You may believe so, but your belief does not make much sense with regards to our societies. Physically, anybody can be as fit as anybody in the military by regularly practising sports, and clearly any triathlete will ridiculise most soldier in most physical challenges. In pure combat or survival skills, one can also train adequately in order to excel in these domains. As for "psychological elite", there is a problem with the concept itself, its mere appearance already betrays a very pronounced liking for fascistic forms of societies (and this liking can perfectly be unconscious). What do you mean by "psychological elite"? Military personnels are trained to perform a specific task in a specific environment: namely warfare. They definitely are best qualified to perform that task, that does not qualify them as "elite" however, in a general sense, except if you wish for the whole of society to be organised along military lines, which is a fascistic type of society, and a completely inefficient one in the current state of the world.

Kurt_Godel
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Posted 09/05/08 - 09:14 AM:	#18
enkidu wrote: I juts wish to react to this little piece. You may believe so, but your belief does not make much sense with regards to our societies. Physically, anybody can be as fit as anybody in the military by regularly practising sports, and clearly any triathlete will ridiculise most soldier in most physical challenges. In pure combat or survival skills, one can also train adequately in order to excel in these domains. Well yeah, anybody 'can be' anything. Its just that most people are average. Of course, I regard sportspersons (professional and amateurs) to be the physical elite as well. enkidu wrote: As for "psychological elite", there is a problem with the concept itself, its mere appearance already betrays a very pronounced liking for fascistic forms of societies (and this liking can perfectly be unconscious). What do you mean by "psychological elite"? By 'psychological elite', I mean far more disciplined, more rational than emotional. Now, what do you mean by "betrays a very pronounced liking for fascistic forms of societies"? enkidu wrote: Military personnels are trained to perform a specific task in a specific environment: namely warfare. They definitely are best qualified to perform that task, that does not qualify them as "elite" however, in a general sense, except if you wish for the whole of society to be organised along military lines, which is a fascistic type of society, and a completely inefficient one in the current state of the world. Oh ok, so that's what you mean. Lol no, I have no desire whatsoever to see a society that revolves around its military. While I admire the Spartans for their martial capabilities, I do think they had a very poor social structure which led to their collapse. I stand by my original contention...that military personel are the physical and psychological elites of society (in addition to being the best qualified for their jobs). Of course, they do not corner this distinction exclusively. However on physical and psychological (as defined) scales, they are in the top percentile and hence...elite.

Absolutely Relative
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Posted 09/06/08 - 10:39 PM:	#19
enkidu wrote: As for "psychological elite", there is a problem with the concept itself, its mere appearance already betrays a very pronounced liking for fascistic forms of societies (and this liking can perfectly be unconscious). What do you mean by "psychological elite"? Following orders without hesitation and without a great concern for 'why' does make a military person's psyche somewhat alien to a civilian. The efficiency of it, and the apparent blind trust can be frightening. You should remember though, that in the US, the officer corps is selected by the president and confirmed by congress. Their every promotion and the very existance of their commission is subject to congressional review. They are trusted because they are the voice of the elected officials. The corps of NCOs are selected, ultimately, by the officers. They are trusted for this reason and because they have been 'there' before. A casual observation, especially by one unfamiliar with this system, could understandably characterize it as fascist. It is a system with checks of power which are intentionally exercised behind the scenes. We do not like fascist systems any more than we like the idea of our loved ones being unwillingly subject to the discipline we volunteered for. enkidu wrote: Military personnels are trained to perform a specific task in a specific environment: namely warfare. They definitely are best qualified to perform that task, that does not qualify them as "elite" however, in a general sense, except if you wish for the whole of society to be organised along military lines, which is a fascistic type of society, and a completely inefficient one in the current state of the world. Professional military men and women are trained to perform a wide set of basic tasks and a set of specific tasks in any environment, including extremely chaotic environments. Warfare is the most chaotic environment and the one where their high levels of skill and psychological preparation most set them apart from the woefully unprepared. They are elite because in the worst of situations, in the situations where at least 90% of people would panic, they focus and perform at their best. I do not want to see the whole world organized in a military way, I just dislike participating in the parts that are not.
It is what it is.

enkidu
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Posted 09/07/08 - 07:07 AM:	#20
Absolutely Relative wrote: Following orders without hesitation and without a great concern for 'why' does make a military person's psyche somewhat alien to a civilian. The efficiency of it, and the apparent blind trust can be frightening. You should remember though, that in the US, the officer corps is selected by the president and confirmed by congress. Their every promotion and the very existance of their commission is subject to congressional review. They are trusted because they are the voice of the elected officials. The corps of NCOs are selected, ultimately, by the officers. They are trusted for this reason and because they have been 'there' before. You're missing my point. I am perfectly aware that in any democracy, the military is highly controlled and regulated by the elected power. I have no issue with that. My criticism was directed towards the attitude that idealizes the military way of life and brands it as a "psychological elite", that is an attitude that leads to fascism, because "elite" being left without qualifications, it must be understood in a general sense, and who does not aspire to be an elite ? Should a society be encouraged to look for joining this elite ? Will such a society be an healthy one ? Unfortunately, the term "psychological elite", outside of a positivistic (and therefore fascistic) understanding of society, does not make much sense. Absolutely Relative wrote: Professional military men and women are trained to perform a wide set of basic tasks and a set of specific tasks in any environment, including extremely chaotic environments. Warfare is the most chaotic environment and the one where their high levels of skill and psychological preparation most set them apart from the woefully unprepared. They are elite because in the worst of situations, in the situations where at least 90% of people would panic, they focus and perform at their best. I do not want to see the whole world organized in a military way, I just dislike participating in the parts that are not. What military men and women are trained to is to retain control of themselves when exposed to combat, and to indeed develop some skills in order to maximise their ability to survive in war. The problem of considering war to be the worst situation (in an absolute sense) is that it reduces reality to something measurable by a linear scale. This attitude is again naively positivistic and leading to fascism. My point is that somebody trained in the army can psychologically collapse (with no consideration to the technical expertise) under the weight of stress in a different environement such as, for instance, the stock market (which in terms of chaos will present him with as much, and actually even more, challenge as a war situation, even though his physical life is not directly at stake). There is simply no absolute psychological elite, soldiers are trained to be psychologically fit in time of war, some civilians are trained to endure particular stress as well, relative to their daily activities: a surgeon, an air controller, a financial consultant or an artist can be as much in the "psychological elite" as the military personnel. Stress may be due to physical danger but physical danger is not the only source of stress, nor, a priori, the most demanding. As for your personal likes and dislikes, you are perfectly entitled to have those, just refrain from making general absolute value judgements based on them. Edited by enkidu on 09/07/08 - 10:08 AM

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