I am not the matter, I am the movement.: Philosophy Forums

I am not the matter, I am the movement.

jsawvel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:34 PM: Subject: I am not the matter, I am the movement.	#1
There is the tendency in materialism to see the self as made of matter, however, we all know how lifeless a dead body is. It does not move, it is not animated by anything. So, I have had the concept that "I am what I control" or I am what I "move." But, I am not the matter.

Dragohunter
illusion is persistent

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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:53 PM:	#2
The materialist argues that consciousness is a phenomenon produced by the brain that can be fundamentally reduced to the chemical reactions of neurons. I am not a materialist at a long shot, but your argument does not work against the materialists' belief system. The self to them is no more than just a deceiving phenomenon produced by the brain like viscosity produced by H20 molecules and malleability from cations.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." - Albert Einstein

wuliheron
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Posted 10/27/09 - 06:14 PM:	#3
Dead bodies are not lifeless, they are teaming with life. Likewise, matter and energy define each other. One without the other is an oxymoron.

mway
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Posted 10/27/09 - 07:22 PM:	#4
You are close. We are matter, as much as a song is the air.
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

James S Saint
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Posted 10/27/09 - 09:29 PM:	#5
If a person is merely a bag of chemicals, then he should mind if he is put into a big plastic bag and repeatedly crushed by a truck, the chemicals won't escape, so no harm done. And you are right, you are the "emotive force", not merely the body inwhich it acts. But then that makes you an energy (spirit). But is that all you are? No. You are also a particularly definitive concept, a "soul". Thus in a whole point of of view (holy), you are all of them, "Body, spirit, and soul".

mway
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Posted 10/27/09 - 10:09 PM:	#6
James S Saint wrote: If a person is merely a bag of chemicals, then he should mind if he is put into a big plastic bag and repeatedly crushed by a truck, the chemicals won't escape, so no harm done. And you are right, you are the "emotive force", not merely the body inwhich it acts. But then that makes you an energy (spirit). But is that all you are? No. You are also a particularly definitive concept, a "soul". Thus in a whole point of of view (holy), you are all of them, "Body, spirit, and soul". You are body only. No harm is done in your chemical example, but that doesn't mean the person would want that to happen. Unless by soul/spirit you simply mean the temporal play of the chemicals that make up the body, then you are just exhibiting good old fashioned superstition.
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

James S Saint
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Posted 10/27/09 - 10:26 PM:	#7
mway wrote: You are body only. No harm is done in your chemical example, but that doesn't mean the person would want that to happen. Unless by soul/spirit you simply mean the temporal play of the chemicals that make up the body, then you are just exhibiting good old fashioned superstition. Unless of course, you have merely superstitiously presumed such to be so (which is pretty evident to me).

jsidelko
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Posted 10/28/09 - 08:49 AM:	#8
Remember, according to special relativity, mass and energy are interchangeable Rather than materialism, we live in a world of dynamic physicalism.
thanatos

mway
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Posted 10/28/09 - 02:45 PM:	#9
James S Saint wrote: Unless of course, you have merely superstitiously presumed such to be so (which is pretty evident to me). No, I presumed something to be not. There is a big difference, and is outlined by Occams razor.
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

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