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How would society be if everyone could hear each other thoughts?

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How would society be if everyone could hear each other thoughts?

spock
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Posted 11/18/09 - 08:35 PM: Subject: How would society be if everyone could hear each other thoughts?	#1
How do you think society would be if we were all telepathic? Would we lose our drive? Would there be no wars because we comphrehend each others world view prefectly ? Would we all be happy? Depressed? Would there be emotions any more? Would we have religion, art and music anymore? How would evolution work? Would we dream anymmore? How would this change our ethics? I hope this is readable.
Satan, really, is the romantic youth of Jesus re-appearing for a moment. James Joyce

Arkady
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Posted 11/18/09 - 08:37 PM:	#2
I think the "problem of other minds" would evaporate fairly quickly...
"The sleep of reason produces monsters." -Francisco Goya

unenlightened
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Posted 11/18/09 - 09:01 PM:	#3
spock wrote: How do you think society would be if we were all telepathic? Would we lose our drive? Would there be no wars because we comphrehend each others world view prefectly ? Would we all be happy? Depressed? Would there be emotions any more? Would we have religion, art and music anymore? How would evolution work? Would we dream anymmore? How would this change our ethics? I hope this is readable. Depends how it worked, I guess. I can read your mind a little bit, with a delay, because you have posted some thoughts right there. Suppose I could see through your eyes, and feel your body, etc, as clearly as I can my own; I don't think I would be able to tell if I was me or you; we would be the same person in two bodies. Or maybe it would be just your thoughts; then it would be like having the radio on maybe. I'm not sure that would make such a big difference, except that lying would be more or less impossible. It might be a bit like being in a therapy session all the time. If it was the whole world's thoughts, I don't think I could cope with the noise unless everyone was meditating and had a very quiet mind. But if it was a proximity thing, like wireless broadband, it might be bearable. How does telepathy work?
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

swstephe
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Posted 11/19/09 - 12:06 AM:	#4
We would probably have a lot more wars since we would lose the ability to negotiate or hide our self-interests. People wouldn't be able to lie, in person. Politics would be nearly impossible. Religion might be stronger in some, but hypocrisy would be harder. Watching a stage play would be like having all the DVD commentary tracks on at once and probably make everything unwatchable. Being able to read everyone's mind would probably be a lot like everyone talking continuously about whatever is on their mind. I don't think we would want to listen and the invention of psychic earplugs would be humanity's top priority. Imagine a world where people just spill out whatever mundane trivia and narcissistic minutia of the day -- it would be like blogs and twitter that you can't turn off.
I do seem to remember a process where you people ask me questions and I give you answers, and then I ask you questions and you give me answers, and that's the way we find out things. I think I read that in a manual somewhere. -- Haywood Floyd 2010

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Posted 11/19/09 - 03:06 AM:	#5
Telepathy supposes being able to feel anothers emotions. It has nothing to do with words and silly grammatical constructions. You will be able to feel another, that means you would be able to feel when you hurt them, feel when you love them. All doubt will be erased. Initially it will be an awkward thing, that is because all of the evils will take some time to dissapear, during this phase there will be some chaos and adversity. Eventually however, we will learn and adapt to our new way of communication, we will become streamlined and much more efficient. Life will become interesting, not because you make it interesting, but because your friend will make it interesting. As time moves on, we will search for answers just like we have within our current language, eventually we will find it is in our best interests to become apathetically neutral. This is when we become machines. This is as far as I can see. That is of course, if telepathy were possible. The only way I think telepathy will evolve is by the introduction of a common sentient enemy. As of now, we have no such enemy. For now I wait quietly for SETI to tell us something worthwhile
Anything, aslong as it allows you, and I, to live.

Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/19/09 - 08:08 AM:	#6
Minyun wrote: Telepathy supposes being able to feel anothers emotions. It has nothing to do with words and silly grammatical constructions. You will be able to feel another, that means you would be able to feel when you hurt them, feel when you love them. All doubt will be erased. I'm afraid that you're making a mistake. Feeling anothers emotions is empathy ("em" coming from emotional). While telepathy could include even empathy "over a distance", the fundamental concept of telepathy is direct communication of experience. Dissolving boundary between my mind and mind of others in a very specific way... communicating what IS your experience rather than formulate verbal statements that can, but don't have to be factual, and are always (at their best) just a best approximation of the actual experience. My... so to say "internal narrative" of that experience is certainly a significant part of my experience since I pay extraordinary amount of attention to it, but in reality it's a part of my experience that in fact never happened... although I have experienced it. Idea of being able to communicate those experiences directly (without conscious verbal adjustments that we often make when we share them via language) is what telepathy should be. What you suggest would be more like "remote viewing"... which we all know is a scam At least that's what I think telepathy should be.... nothing else would be of any interest to us. Minyun wrote: That is of course, if telepathy were possible Again you start from a wrong assumption... was language possible during the wast majority of human history... before it had actually emerged? Obviously it was since we're using it... so debating the "possibility" of telepathy is like debating the possibility of life. Obviously it's possible, but not mandatory. Regarding our waiting for the SETI announcement, as Marshall would say: "The price of eternal vigilance is indifference." and "Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." Edited by Shamantrixx on 11/19/09 - 08:18 AM
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

To Mega Therion
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Posted 11/19/09 - 09:53 AM:	#7
There was an episode of Kino no Tabi where an advanced society deliberately made all it's members telephatic (in the involuntary sense, which I assume the OP was talking about)? Well, that society pretty much fell apart, with everyone living in isolation and panically afraid of contact with other people. Honestly, if it happened in our society I think we would be at each other's throats in no time; well, the ones who wouldn't be jumping from bridges. There are many occasions when keeping your mouth shut is really a good idea - that friend of yours may dribble on for hours, but do you want to hurt her by pointing that out? Do you want to tell a drunken hoolingan what you think about people like him? And do you really want to know what people think about you? Besides, I have to say that having everyone know my thoughts would be a bit dehumanising, like living in a panopticon but a few orders of magnitude worse. Not just the embarassing ones, mind you (though I guess I would have to avoid quite a few women), but what business of others would it be that I have Claire de Lune stuck in my head? A related worry would be that the situation would basically obliterate the difference between what is relevant and irrelevant in a person's speech. Sure, we have all kinds of thoughts floating around in our mind at any time, but we only express some; those that we deem relevant and appropriate. How would that work if anyone would know my thoughts at the moment they occurred to me? In conclusion, I'll take the tin foil hat option. Stay out of my head, filthy bastard commies!
"To express the same idea in another way, I think human knowledge is essentially active. To know is to assimilate reality into systems of transformations." - J. Piaget

Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/19/09 - 04:57 PM:	#8
To Mega Therion wrote: There was an episode of Kino no Tabi where an advanced society deliberately made all it's members telephatic (in the involuntary sense, which I assume the OP was talking about)? Well, that society pretty much fell apart There was also a few interesting episodes of "The Daleks"... but than again... it's just a cheap entertainment, isn't it? To Mega Therion wrote: There are many occasions when keeping your mouth shut is really a good idea - that friend of yours may dribble on for hours, but do you want to hurt her by pointing that out? Sure... if you pretend otherwise you're not acting friendly. You're simply being hypocritical. To Mega Therion wrote: Do you want to tell a drunken hoolingan what you think about people like him? Of course you do... he would probably act differently if people around him had been more friendly and hones. But having friend who avoid to criticize you and instead pretend to be amused and interested... that often leads to self destructive behavior. To Mega Therion wrote: And do you really want to know what people think about you? Depends on who does the thinking. But when it comes to friends and family.... I would certainly like to hear the truth. Otherwise communication would be simply cosmetic... meaningless. To Mega Therion wrote: Besides, I have to say that having everyone know my thoughts would be a bit dehumanising, like living in a panopticon but a few orders of magnitude worse. Not just the embarassing ones, mind you (though I guess I would have to avoid quite a few women), but what business of others would it be that I have Claire de Lune stuck in my head? What's wrong with liking girls? Unless of course you think of them simply as something to play with, while in fact you don't care about the person. That would indeed offend them, but not because you like them... but because it would be quite selfish to think of others as being your toys without needs and likes of their own. To Mega Therion wrote: A related worry would be that the situation would basically obliterate the difference between what is relevant and irrelevant in a person's speech. I don't think so... even now bullshit and lies are irrelevant to everybody... but it would be easier to notice when you're being lied to. Now that's quite relevant and useful... unless you're a liar, but in that case you are in no position to argue about pros and cons. To Mega Therion wrote: Sure, we have all kinds of thoughts floating around in our mind at any time, but we only express some; those that we deem relevant and appropriate. How would that work if anyone would know my thoughts at the moment they occurred to me? Well... it's telepathy... it's not a transcontinental broadcast system with 6 billion channels broadcasting all at once... and for each of us. Instead of speaking we will communicate direct experience of what we want to communicate... willingly, just as we now speak. To Mega Therion wrote: In conclusion, I'll take the tin foil hat option. Stay out of my head, filthy bastard commies! It's so unfortunate when you have to be ashamed of your own thoughts. That sounds like a serious trouble. What ever is you're hiding... obviously it's not good for the rest of us. Why hide it otherwise?
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

To Mega Therion
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Posted 11/19/09 - 05:14 PM:	#9
Shamantrixx wrote: Sure... if you pretend otherwise you're not acting friendly. You're simply being hypocritical. No, you're not being friendly for bothering everyone with every minor flaw. You're being obnoxious. Shamantrixx wrote: Of course you do... he would probably act differently if people around him had been more friendly and hones. But having friend who avoid to criticize you and instead pretend to be amused and interested... that often leads to self destructive behavior. Not your friend, some random drunk you meet while walking down the street. And of course you wouldn't tell him that, not unless you fancy being beaten to a pulp. Shamantrixx wrote: Depends on who does the thinking. But when it comes to friends and family.... I would certainly like to hear the truth. Otherwise communication would be simply cosmetic... meaningless. But from every person you know? Shamantrixx wrote: What's wrong with liking girls? Unless of course you think of them simply as something to play with, while in fact you don't care about the person. That would indeed offend them, but not because you like them... but because it would be quite selfish to think of others as being your toys without needs and likes of their own. I was talking about those kind of fantasies. Most men have them, most men don't think of women as toys and most men would be slapped if they ever related them to someone they don't know well. Shamantrixx wrote: I don't think so... even now bullshit and lies are irrelevant to everybody... but it would be easier to notice when you're being lied to. Now that's quite relevant and useful... unless you're a liar, but in that case you are in no position to argue about pros and cons. Everyone's a liar here and there. No harm in that. Shamantrixx wrote: Well... it's telepathy... it's not a transcontinental broadcast system with 6 billion channels broadcasting all at once... and for each of us. Instead of speaking we will communicate direct experience of what we want to communicate... willingly, just as we now speak. I was talking about involuntary telepathy, where someone could scan my mind without my consent. What you describe seems not much different from normal communication. Shamantrixx wrote: It's so unfortunate when you have to be ashamed of your own thoughts. That sounds like a serious trouble. What ever is you're hiding... obviously it's not good for the rest of us. Why hide it otherwise? Haven't watched much Monty Python, have you? (And what do you know about my plans to become the Empe... uh, nothing.)
"To express the same idea in another way, I think human knowledge is essentially active. To know is to assimilate reality into systems of transformations." - J. Piaget

Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/19/09 - 05:41 PM:	#10
Well... involuntary telepathy would be "mind reading"... not telepathy. Like having a telephone conversation... requires willingness to communicate from both sides! As "being obnoxious"... it's not the truth that's obnoxious. But people with strong and illusory self image often persuade them self that truth is wrong... because they must be right. A fantasy is a fantasy... I don't see why anyone should be offended for having a role in someones fantasy, nor why would they be interested in your fantasies!? Having my own is way more fun, especially if your fantasies include your naked ass You should read again my reply on the "random drunk"... since you've managed not to understand it judging by your answer. Funny that you mention Monty Python... since they have tried hard to communicate their deepest thoughts to the rest of us... and in your case it just wasn't enough I guess.
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

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