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How do you measure information?

jsawvel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:07 AM: Subject: How do you measure information?	#1
I was just thinking of how you to determine how much information is contained in a certain symbol or text. For instance, you could create a symbol and then say that symbol represents the whole of a novel you have written. The symbol represents a long and drawn out story. So, does that symbol contain the entirety or information that is contained in the story? Basically information is broken down into pieces that when put together become unique, kind of like the lines that make up a picture. Each line helps to complete an entire picture or concept. But, lines taken individually are meaningless. So, how do you measure how much information is contained in a composition - writing, pictures, sculpture etc? Another point is that even a picture would be meaningless or contain no information if we did not have recognition of that picture. So, information has to have something that we recognize in it. And at the same time has to be able to communicate things we don't recognize - thereby helping us to learn, i.e. take in new information.`

longfun
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:11 AM:	#2
jsawvel wrote: I was just thinking of how you to determine how much information is contained in a certain symbol or text. For instance, you could create a symbol and then say that symbol represents the whole of a novel you have written. The symbol represents a long and drawn out story. So, does that symbol contain the entirety or information that is contained in the story? Basically information is broken down into pieces that when put together become unique, kind of like the lines that make up a picture. Each line helps to complete an entire picture or concept. But, lines taken individually are meaningless. So, how do you measure how much information is contained in a composition - writing, pictures, sculpture etc? Another point is that even a picture would be meaningless or contain no information if we did not have recognition of that picture. So, information has to have something that we recognize in it. And at the same time has to be able to communicate things we don't recognize - thereby helping us to learn, i.e. take in new information.` Look up how zip files or mp 3 or other compressing files work and how they are able to reconstruct the original piece.
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theabsenceofdeceit
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:17 AM:	#3
Its a matter of association. One sees an image or symbol, and through past experiences we associate that image with a past feeling or concept. This concept could be linked to another concept and to another. Which could have a relatively large capacity by that train of thought. For example, (An example I'm ashamed of, but it's relevant to the common man in the modern age) imagine you see the thunderbolt which is shown the character Harry Potter's head. Your mind instantly clicks and realizes it is an image you have seen before. The mind draws the link between the concept of the thunderbolt image and the character, and further from the character to the story, then further to the book, then further to when you and your cousin Jeremy went to see the movie... so on and so forth. One idea is associated to another then to another, thereby making the amount of information you recall from seeing a particular image, remarkably large.
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jsawvel
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 10/27/09 - 05:28 AM:	#4
Ok, so information is contained in an object or symbol based on your association with other experiences, but ultimately all the information comes from experience, the symbol is just a link or marker to that experience. I am reminded of "branding" where a single symbol communicates a whole list of products, company values, TV commercials etc. Or, I am reminded of a country flag or a team flag. So, information is not dependent on the number of characters or symbols. A very simple symbol could contain a large amount of information depending on who is viewing it.

jsidelko
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Posted 10/27/09 - 06:22 AM:	#5
A single letter contains 8 bits or 1 byte of information. The previous sentence contains roughly 47 bytes of information (excluding spaces and periods which would probably add 11 more bytes.
thanatos

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Posted 10/27/09 - 06:49 AM:	#6
Information is essentially the relationship things have to eachother.
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wuliheron
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Posted 10/27/09 - 07:20 AM:	#7
jsawvel wrote: I was just thinking of how you to determine how much information is contained in a certain symbol or text. For instance, you could create a symbol and then say that symbol represents the whole of a novel you have written. The symbol represents a long and drawn out story. So, does that symbol contain the entirety or information that is contained in the story? Basically information is broken down into pieces that when put together become unique, kind of like the lines that make up a picture. Each line helps to complete an entire picture or concept. But, lines taken individually are meaningless. So, how do you measure how much information is contained in a composition - writing, pictures, sculpture etc? Another point is that even a picture would be meaningless or contain no information if we did not have recognition of that picture. So, information has to have something that we recognize in it. And at the same time has to be able to communicate things we don't recognize - thereby helping us to learn, i.e. take in new information.` In the broader sense you are talking about abstractions, not information per se. If I stubb my toe the sensation of pain could be described as information, but would not normally be called an abstraction. Words/concepts/abstractions only have demonstrable meaning according to their function in a given context. Thus the demonstrable amount of information an abstraction can have is limited by the context in which it is used. That's not to say that it can't have an infinite amount of information, just that there is a limit as to how much information that it contains is demonstrable.

jsawvel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 07:39 AM:	#8
Ok, so a symbol or a brand does not contain information, it is just a marker, just like a red ribbon in a file cabinet. The information is in your brain, the marker justs references it. So, I would call "information," using markers as a way of combining experiences etc to produce new things that were not previously in your brain. So, essentially, the power of information is the ability to combine what you already have in your head in a new way.

jsidelko
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Posted 10/27/09 - 10:36 AM:	#9
We must be careful not to confuse information with knowledge. For example, a book with random words might contain more information than a poem but offers little knowledge about its contents.
thanatos

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 10/27/09 - 03:13 PM:	#10
Any signal generating system will yield information. The next step should be a topology laid out in layers where each layer has its own information substrate so to speak. When information from one layer leaks into the next layer it becomes data for that next layer. As the symbol becomes more esoteric it will offer special content on reception.
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

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