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How do you measure information?

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How do you measure information?
jsawvel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:27 PM:
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#11
"Any signal generating system will yield information. The next step should be a topology laid out in layers where each layer has its own information substrate so to speak. When information from one layer leaks into the next layer it becomes data for that next layer. As the symbol becomes more esoteric it will offer special content on reception."

Are you talking about how concepts are built on each other to more and more abstract concepts? Like words like nostalgia, renaisance, revolution etc. How they are groupings built on other groupings, kind of like sets in math?
Klas Wullt
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Posted 10/30/09 - 03:55 PM:
Subject: nihilism
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#12
I prefere falsification
and the typical check lists found in any basic book about theoretical sciencess.

Weisen
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Posted 11/06/09 - 12:33 PM:
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#13
jsawvel wrote:
I was just thinking of how you to determine how much information is contained in a certain symbol or text.

For instance, you could create a symbol and then say that symbol represents the whole of a novel you have written. The symbol represents a long and drawn out story. So, does that symbol contain the entirety or information that is contained in the story?

Basically information is broken down into pieces that when put together become unique, kind of like the lines that make up a picture. Each line helps to complete an entire picture or concept. But, lines taken individually are meaningless.

So, how do you measure how much information is contained in a composition - writing, pictures, sculpture etc?

Another point is that even a picture would be meaningless or contain no information if we did not have recognition of that picture.

So, information has to have something that we recognize in it. And at the same time has to be able to communicate things we don't recognize - thereby helping us to learn, i.e. take in new information.`
Well most work is perceived. If I were to read what a novel is about, how I must view, see it, observe it and think it. I would not have as much fun reading it. It would be a very strict world. Thus it is open to perception.
Weisen
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Posted 11/06/09 - 12:35 PM:
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#14
Weisen wrote:
Well most work is perceived. If I were to read what a novel is about, how I must view, see it, observe it and think it. I would not have as much fun reading it. It would be a very strict world. Thus it is open to perception.
An artist can never fully control what the viewer should see. When it comes to symbols; unless we actually know the meaning behind the symbol we perceive it the way we wish. Even with reason and logic.
Weisen
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Posted 11/06/09 - 12:41 PM:
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#15
theabsenceofdeceit wrote:
Its a matter of association. One sees an image or symbol, and through past experiences we associate that image with a past feeling or concept. This concept could be linked to another concept and to another. Which could have a relatively large capacity by that train of thought.

For example, (An example I'm ashamed of, but it's relevant to the common man in the modern age) imagine you see the thunderbolt which is shown the character Harry Potter's head. Your mind instantly clicks and realizes it is an image you have seen before. The mind draws the link between the concept of the thunderbolt image and the character, and further from the character to the story, then further to the book, then further to when you and your cousin Jeremy went to see the movie... so on and so forth.

One idea is associated to another then to another, thereby making the amount of information you recall from seeing a particular image, remarkably large.
Do you assume this? Because you are very wrong. Many people do not know what the symbol grin means. And once they find out the meaning and value they start to see the familiarities based on what they have learned. I did not relate Spongebob to a sponge because of his name, but from what I observed with no english reading skills is a piece of cheese. Only after I learned what he truly was did I start to see him as a sponge.
Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/06/09 - 01:14 PM:
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#16
throng wrote:
Information is essentially the relationship things have to eachother.


True... information is particular arrangement of "things". Each arrangement is one (1) information regardless to the actual number of things in that arrangement.

Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior.
Marshall McLuhan
treemanshope
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Posted 11/10/09 - 01:16 PM:
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#17
Information is measured by noise. Its when one gets a reversal in which noise begins to be heard as information. Noise is the ignored the unvalued and as the noise builds up it reaches a point and overwhelms the signal.

The words of peace are just words, it is man that gives them flesh. Bring peace into the material world. Or, bring something else.
treemanshope.
Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/15/09 - 08:48 AM:
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#18
treemanshope wrote:
Information is measured by noise. Its when one gets a reversal in which noise begins to be heard as information. Noise is the ignored the unvalued and as the noise builds up it reaches a point and overwhelms the signal.


Can you elaborate this just a little bit further?

I'm not able to reconstruct your statement into a functioning model of understanding... probably due to my own limitations!?

Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior.
Marshall McLuhan
treemanshope
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Posted 11/15/09 - 03:22 PM:
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#19
Sure, but its my fault for being a little vague. I'm still trying to construct a model for it myself.
Whether we are talking about information in the noosphere or gases in the atmosphere, information is what ever is being paid attention to. Like pollution. Pollution is a form of noise in transmission. At the beginnings of civilization such noise is ignored, and only now are such such disturbances becoming truly disturbing.
At the point that noise begins to be heard as information, one gets a reversal and one begins to get a sense that noise is actually systematic rather than random and that it constitutes a form of echo or shadow to the unrecognized civilizational system.
Its the difference that makes the difference and constitutes information.

The words of peace are just words, it is man that gives them flesh. Bring peace into the material world. Or, bring something else.
treemanshope.
Shamantrixx
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Posted 11/15/09 - 04:51 PM:
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#20
So the more noise any particular signal contains, the more information is being ignored by the perceiver... simply by virtue of either not paying attention, or not being able to understand "the noise"?

Actually... you could be on to something, especially if it turns out that there is no "noise"... if everything is essentially information, than maybe by measuring "noise" we can measure attention and understanding!?

Or have I failed to understand you again (making noise)?

Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior.
Marshall McLuhan
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