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Homosexuality natural ?
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Homosexuality natural ?

Philonus
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Posted 07/17/07 - 09:45 AM: Subject: Homosexuality natural ?	#1
Is homosexuality really natural? I know that the World Health Organization and American Psychology removed homosexuality as a mental illness, and I know that scientist found out the biological difference between homosexuals and hetereosexuals. But are these evidence sufficient enough to prove that Homosexuality is natural? Here are a few quetions I have questionting the idea or statement that homosexuality is to be considered natural. Why is it that we humans were made to reproduce? (Now if you're thinking i'm trying to bring religion and God into this, please do away with those thoughts. This is not my intention. I do not want any misunderstanding here)Without reproduction then a species would less likely continue its existence. If it is true that reproduction and heterosexual relationships increases and preserves the human population, then what about homosexuality? What purpose does homosexuality hold to human survival? Why is it that most people are attracted to the opposite sex? Sex without sexual drive or motivation would less likely allow us to reproduce. Sexual drive exists to increase that possiblity of reproduction, but what about homosexual drives? Does it gives positive benefiting results? Well...I guess that's about now. I'm not trying to say homosexuality is evil or wrong, if that's what some of you might think, i'm trying to see what some of you might think. I would obviously meet those who support the statement that homoseuality is normal while there will also be those who object that statement. I personally don't approve homosexuality as being completely natural, but I don't have strong and rantional arguements to actually support it. Please share your opinions on this.

nosos
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Posted 07/17/07 - 09:53 AM:	#2
Homosexuality is natural is a descriptive statement. Homosexuality occurs in nature - it's not the product of man's work - ipso facto homosexuality is natural. The fact you talk about approval or disapproval of this fact - rather than simply accepting that it either is or is not empirically true - shows how, for you, it's clearly a moral issue. Likewise, in many bits of western liberal democracies, homosexuality is normal - indeed you could make the argument that it is, descriptively speaking, normal in any place where it's been made legal - however this statement can be interpreted in a moral sense. So here the question again boils down to whether homosexuality is socially acceptable. Do you think it is?
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

nosos
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Posted 07/17/07 - 09:54 AM:	#3
Philonus wrote: What purpose does homosexuality hold to human survival? What purpose does 99% of heterosexual sex serve in liberal societies that have contraception? Is heterosexual sex that doesn't lead to reproduction wrong in your view beacuse it doesn't aid human survival?
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

Mac_the_Knife
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0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 07/17/07 - 10:51 AM:	#4
nosos wrote: What purpose does 99% of heterosexual sex serve in liberal societies that have contraception? Is heterosexual sex that doesn't lead to reproduction wrong in your view beacuse it doesn't aid human survival? No, "ipso facto", heterosexual sex which does not lead to reproduction is usually fun. Like eating a tasty food when you are not precisely hungry and drinking when you are not precisely thirsty. That is not a point. What is the point though, is that people are not meant to be sexually attracted to the members of the same sex - for biological reasons. When they do, its an aberration. Aberrations exist normally in the nature, but they should not be encouraged - when this would become prevalent within any other species, the species dies. You seem to forget that evolution has not ended yet. That is the material point. The only material point. We need healthy population, without a subpopulation of individuals who have psychological problems interacting with the opposite sex (for whatever reasons) and so prefer to stay with others of the same sex, afflicted with the same problem. Edited by ying on 07/17/07 - 02:46 PM

Cadrache
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Posted 07/17/07 - 12:13 PM:	#5
Um... Say you do not feel 100%, go to a doctor and he says: "You have a cancer, "ipso facto" it is natural, go home and die, which by the way is also perfectly natural". I'm sorry, but I have my ALT ligament (one of the middle ligaments in the knee) completely destroyed. Yay bad kick in martial arts! It took me actually hurting my leg twice, just to wait 6 months to see the professional. So, I get to see the professional, and lo' and behold, I get on a wait list of 3 years. 4 years later, they call up asking if I still want to be on the wait list. Wait... there is more. Speech therapists when I was a lil' tike. They stick a tube down my throat and exclaim that my air passage is so small, they are surprised I can speak at all. Guess what? They did absolutely nothing. Still have the big ol' tonsils. So, tell you the truth, having the doctors tell me to go home and die would be of no surprise. Having the doctors actually do something to the benefit of my health however, lets just hope i'm not prone to heart attacks. =/ Well, your statement just annoyed me, sorry. Oh, and don't try to change the subject too much. Back on subject. The question to me, 'Is homosexuality natural?' isn't asking what reality is, it is more a question as to why some traditional ethics do not follow observed reality, the problem a large number of religions seem to contain. Reply to Mac_the_knife's bits of info. It depends on the origins of gender. I really love John Brunners' "crucible of time". I actually think he may have hit it on the mark. Origins of Gender was actually created by the mutual benefit of 2 species combining their genetic code to continue the species. If his sci-fi theory is actually correct, then one could derive an easy devision of basics to two types of reproduction of basic cells. That of viruses, and that of a host cell. (Finding actual proof may be a problem) If someone does their research in the science field, you will most likely find that semen follows a number of traditional functions that viruses use to enter a cell. (functions like opening the door, and not things like 'chemical x is the chemical used.') Now another step towards the question of homosexuality. Obviously these cells are not just simple forms of bacteria or viruses. They combined to become something more. Origins of the reproduction of a single species, would not be able to happen by inserting genetic code into another species until they actually get other species in existence. This essentially means that a number of first-born species would have to use the whole cell split option, or combine together with another cell to complete transfer of code to continue the cell-species. What may happen with some complex organisms is that portions of both modes of reproduction exists within the same cell. Ie. Complex organisms have both active, and inactive genes which partially define how they reproduce. Some are more for the injection method, while others are more of the sharing of code option. That would be the dominant form of cell reproduction in the complex species. (supposedly) It is possible that a specific set of priorities for the way in which the reproduction cycle takes precedence over the usual transfer of heterosexual sex is in regression. Ie. The old genes are just inactive. (The more humane way of 'getting rid of the gay' for them fanatics. just turn on the right genes) In the case of homosexuals, it is possible that their cells are wanting to reproduce with like cells because the genes are turned on in a different sequence. Ie. They want to reproduce by combining with cells that are similar in construct to their own. What I explained is way beyond what Brunner explained, and is not his work. Just for clarification, no 'scientific work'. Just the reading of material and making use of my brain a bit.

Reformed Nihilist
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Posted 07/17/07 - 12:25 PM:	#6
Mac_the_Knife wrote: Aberrations exist normally in the nature, but they should not be encouraged Is there anyone encouraging homosexuality? Is there a marketing campaign, and I just missed the commercials? If there is, I think left-handedness and male pattern baldness deserve their own campaigns as aberrations.
Nobody ever became a famous philosopher by being a champion of ecumenical hybridism Daniel Dennett Freedom Evolves

Cadrache
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Posted 07/17/07 - 12:45 PM:	#7
Actually there was, um... 4 years ago(?) For school children no less. Some stupid campaign of 'it doesn't matter what race we are' type deal, but for 'gay sociality'. From what was written, a 'we'll suggestively express ourselves sexually campaign'. There is a couple of traditional teen dance commercials as well. Think they are from germany. The guy, getting up the courage, with traditional black screens showing some white 'info' splitting up the scenes every so often. They show a guy/girl sitting down chatting. The boy goes up.. and asks the guy to dance. The whole idea being that there is just alot of 'normal' peer pressure to conform to society as children, and you should be able to get through it. Oh, and there's a youtube video of a boy singing 'it's raining men' for some sort of 'idol' type contest I think. Actually does an ok job on it. Sigh.. one of them random searches for music videos.

nosos
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Posted 07/17/07 - 01:11 PM:	#8
Mac_the_Knife wrote: Say you do not feel 100%, go to a doctor and he says: "You have a cancer, "ipso facto" it is natural, go home and die, which by the way is also perfectly natural". The naturalness of my death has no bearing on my own evaluation of it. Likewise the naturalness of homosexuality has no bearing on my own evaluation of it. I’m simply criticising the fallacy of making moral arguments from what is natural.
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

nosos
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Posted 07/17/07 - 01:14 PM:	#9
Mac_the_Knife wrote: No, "ipso facto", heterosexual sex which does not lead to reproduction is usually fun. Likewise homosexual sex which does not lead to reproduction is usually fun. Hence the moral irrelevancy of it not leading to reproduction. What is the point though, is that people are not meant to be sexually attracted to the members of the same sex - for biological reasons. Because it doesn’t lead to reproduction?
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

nosos
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Posted 07/17/07 - 01:17 PM:	#10
Cadrache wrote: Actually there was, um... 4 years ago(?) For school children no less. Some stupid campaign of 'it doesn't matter what race we are' type deal, but for 'gay sociality'. Do anti-racism campaigns encourage people to be black? I’m guessing not – though obviously I don’t know what goes on in Canada – so why do you presume that anti-homophobia campaigns work to encourage people to be gay?
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

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