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Heaven and Hell

aletheist
Professor

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Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Olathe, KS

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Posted 10/26/09 - 08:36 AM:	#21
GeorgeHawkins wrote: Hmm. Ok perhaps its not in the actual bible. I can't seem to find where it is in it if it is after a short search but you can't tell me its not part of neo-Christian thaught. Because it clearly is. I am not sure what you mean by "neo-Christian", and I certainly have never applied that term to myself. In any case, the "bit" to which you linked is a parable, at best; no one (to my knowledge, anyway) seriously believes that it provides a literally accurate description of heaven and hell. GeorgeHawkins wrote: Found these in the actual bible tho: I have not disputed the notion that hell--i.e., permanent separation from God--is a very unpleasant state. GeorgeHawkins wrote: So what if someone who really wanted to go off and do some sex killing found the thaught of the gnashing of teeth un appealing and so lived as a good Christian? How would you define "living as a good Christian"? Remember, it is not our outward behavior that determines our eternal destiny--it is whether or not we are in a mutually voluntary love relationship with God as Lord. GeorgeHawkins wrote: He/She (hopefully she) would end up doing sex killing in heaven and so would really spoil heaven for all the people who were good because of compassion and love and that sort of slop. There will not be any killing in heaven--that would contradict the whole notion of eternal life!
"Be attentive, Be intelligent, Be reasonable, Be responsible." - Bernard Lonergan (1904-1984)

swstephe
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Posted 10/26/09 - 09:15 PM:	#22
No death in heaven? These verses from the Old Testament seemed problematic on that subject. They seem to indicate that there will be death, sinners, and you still have to build houses and plant fields, (requiring shelter, sleep, eating and drinking to survive)? Isaiah 65:17-25 wrote: For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the youth shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

russiancircles
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:56 PM:	#23
Well I'm not incredibly familiar with religion (I've never read the bible completely through), but I will say this. Reward cannot come without conflict. If we acted as we wished, and that coincided with god's idea of goodness, we have done nothing to deserve reward. It is the conflict itself, the difficulty that occurs when I see an immediate reward that could be obtained through murder, and instead I choose not to, that generates reward. We HAVE to act against our desires; to do otherwise is not worthy of heaven.

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