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God and creation.

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God and creation.

Nadira
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3 of 3 people found this post helpful Posted 01/21/05 - 02:12 AM:	#1
God: Was he or she a conscious creator or an unconscious origin of his creation? If he is conscious he probably know the consequences of his creation. He could also be a watch maker which watch is nowadays out of control. The existence is unlimited. You can not be conscious of the unlimited consequences because it never stops. So he was unconscious? Islamic scholars told me that humans have to try to become just like God. So we have to be charitable and chaste but also powerful and wise… We could take and took over certain thing that belonged to God. Was he aware of this in the beginning? May be he over underrated us…. We shall see where this topic may lead to.

weezil2012
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Posted 01/21/05 - 02:41 AM:	#2
I believe he was a conscious creator, but I don't believe, like many Agnostics do, that he's responsible for pain and suffering. It's like building an ant farm. You create the habitat and give the ants the means to thrive. However, inevitably, the farm begins to die out when they've finally dug all the tunnels that can possibly be built. The builder is hardly responsible for what happened once the ants were placed inside the farm. Their successes or failures are a direct result of their choices. I don't think God underrated us. He gave us the capability to learn at an exceptionally quick rate. It is the will of man that uses all that knowledge to destroy the very Earth we call home. But, then again, maybe God is VERY conscious. Have you ever wondered why we have tidal waves that wipe out 150,000 people all at once, or forest fires that kills dozens, or earthquakes that kill thousands? Could it not be that God is sick and tired?
If you can't beat your computer at chess, maybe you should try kickboxing.

Jonesie
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Posted 01/26/05 - 09:39 PM:	#3
God was a conscious creator. He knew exactly what He was doing when he created the earth. There is a reason that we have lasted as long as we have. God will not allow His creation to kill themselves. Why would He? What then would be the purpose of this world. God created man because He wanted a personal relationship with the beings that He created. Everyones purpse in life is to find Him. Some do, others don't. As Christians we are called to become more like Christ (who is God). God is in control of everything that does and does not happen on this earth. Nothing is coincidence, and everything is planned and has a purpose.

EcceQuiTollisPeccataMundi
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Posted 01/26/05 - 11:06 PM:	#4
Funny, I was under the impression that nothing created by God was inherently "Bad" or "Evil" but lacking in temporally pleasurable qualities. I was also under the impression that Christ was the only begotten son of God. I notice a problem with what you are saying though. You say that "Nothing is coincidence, and everything is planned and has a purpose." and "Everyone's purpose is to find Him." Some do, and others don't? That means to me that those "who don't" are fated to "don't" and thus you have determinism. Your quantifying over teleology and inferring that a metaphysical supposition is indeed true, and therefore an object of knowledge as opposed to a mere belief; Moreover, if everyone's purpose is to "find" Him, and "Some don't" then they have not fulfilled their purpose(Because you said 'Everyone's purpose...'); this could not happen in determinism(as per your own argument): contradiction. As God he is transcendental and therefore supernatural it seems here, and that also means that you beleive in a linear time theology; what say you? Can you tell me the purpose of your post, or was it already determined? If that is so, every circumstance leading to your posting of that post and this very response to your post that was already planned and therefore determined - consequently your response to this post or lack thereof is already determined as well: I suggest exercising free-will to inform yourself if the former is already determined. Respectfully, Ecce.
The Optimist: I do believe that it was a life-changing experience. From this point on, every chicken sandwich I eat will be compared to that one and I know they'll all fall short...What a terrible world. Hyena: Or you can say that with the rarity of such a chicken sandwich, all the low quality sandwiches you are going to eat from then onwards would always remind you of how lucky you are for being one of the few who have been able to taste such an extraordinary sandwich.

Nihilistic Locomotive
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Posted 01/26/05 - 11:27 PM:	#5
But perhaps not finding God is finding him, and the label is left to the perspective of the fated as an expression of the divine, or the undivine, or the inbetween. So the posts here are more like unique poses, symbolic gestures of God's creation in time. If everyones purpose is to find God, and that is an absolute, then no matter what the purpose may superficially appear to be, we are all in truth finding him. So swear, curse, and kill... we are finding him. If God is stripped of all sense, and has no ties to the organic mistake of man, then he is not to be discussed because it is pointless. But creation can in any moment be pointless, and thus anything goes... if you are willing to accept it for as long as that moment lasts.
Be outrageous but don't be an ass.

Jonesie
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Posted 01/27/05 - 05:32 AM:	#6
When I was speaking of predestination I was going with the theological position, not a philosophical or metaphyscial. If you do not find God you cannot fulfill your purpose on this earth. He created us in His image that we would have a relationship with Him. One has an ample oppurtunity to accept Him. In order to find God you must be actively seeking Him. Killing, cursing, swearing are all things that are not apart of God. He does not wants us to do those things. Do Christians do them? Yes, but they are conscious of their mistakes. They are forgiven for them. Everyones purpose is to gain a relationship with God through Jesus. You are not finding God if you are killing and swearing. How would that draw you any closer to a being that promotes love and justice?

EcceQuiTollisPeccataMundi
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Posted 01/27/05 - 10:55 AM:	#7
False Dichotomy is the name I title to most of the fire and brimstone of your post, Jonesie. By the way, theological claims are also metaphysical suppositions. When I was speaking of predestination I was going with the theological position, not a philosophical or metaphyscial. If it is metaphysical determinism, then it would most likely be philosophical, no? Then, explain why your theological "predestination" does not imply metaphysical determinism. Also, explain the consequential injunctions that are a part of your teleology. Respectfully, Ecce.
The Optimist: I do believe that it was a life-changing experience. From this point on, every chicken sandwich I eat will be compared to that one and I know they'll all fall short...What a terrible world. Hyena: Or you can say that with the rarity of such a chicken sandwich, all the low quality sandwiches you are going to eat from then onwards would always remind you of how lucky you are for being one of the few who have been able to taste such an extraordinary sandwich.

Jonesie
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Posted 01/27/05 - 07:48 PM:	#8
I don't believe that any of my posts relate to fire and brimstone, but to basic theology. You will have to clarify what you mean by consequential injuctions, for I do not wish to ramble on a topic I am unsure of the meaning.

EcceQuiTollisPeccataMundi
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Posted 01/27/05 - 10:00 PM:	#9
Basically, I want to know - after you explain how your system does not imply metaphysical determinism by reconciling the notion of "free-will" with what you call "predestination," - is what are the conditional impications of fulfilling "your purpose" in God's judgment; I want to know what exactly you think that I have to do, or you have to do, to "establish a relationship with Jesus" and therefore be saved. I regarded your last remarks as largely being a false dichotomy to the issue of explaining your real position: define your terms, defend them, and realize that what you beleive does not help you or anyone else in finding truth. Let's see if what you have to say is true, that's all. Respectfully, Ecce.
The Optimist: I do believe that it was a life-changing experience. From this point on, every chicken sandwich I eat will be compared to that one and I know they'll all fall short...What a terrible world. Hyena: Or you can say that with the rarity of such a chicken sandwich, all the low quality sandwiches you are going to eat from then onwards would always remind you of how lucky you are for being one of the few who have been able to taste such an extraordinary sandwich.

Nadira
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Posted 01/28/05 - 05:38 AM:	#10
@weezil2012 I think that we gave us ourselves capability to learn at an exceptionally quick rate through evolution. @Jonesie “God will not allow His creation to kill themselves.” I hope so. We shall need some miracles if we want to stay alive. The environment is chancing rapidly. I think you are yourself the propose of life. I am always sceptical about identity of God. Maybe Christians are saying the God is Jesus, so that they can understand him better. Is it writhen in the Bible that Christ is God? You will place every experience inside your view of God if you say this is God. “He does not wants us to do those things.” Why would he? Does he likes suffering?

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