Giving Alms to the poor. Yea or Nay? •filter Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Feb 18, 2003 Location: blighty Total Topics: 56 Total Posts: 6 #21 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 1, 2004 - 8:07 PM: Oh you poor "starving" college student, you. I repeat - you have NEVER experienced true hunger. If you had, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous claims.f •James Yoshinobu Iha Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Jan 23, 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 0 #22 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 2, 2004 - 2:58 AM: u cant just generalise and say, "I say one homeless person pickpocket this businessman, therefore all homeless people r thieves!" or "dont give money to the poor, theyll just spend it on crack, not food."thats just pure stupidity based on selfishness and ignorance, as someone stated above, wat about that veteran with no friends or family, r u thinking "well his time is up, hes done his job of defending our country and saving future generations, i wont give him 1 cent, now lets go to buy another mobile phone or another $2999 plasma tv!"i go to a private school in the heart of sydney cbd, and i see homeless ppl all around us when i walk from the train station to school. i know im privileged, and extremely lucky, but all the ppl around me r ignorant, and think all homeless ppl r useless drug abusing alcoholics. its a pain going to this rich school with spoilt rich brats mouthing off homeless ppl while talkin on$300 mobile phones, buying $100 brand jeans, bragging about their$3000 computers, it just makes me sick. but im different, because i know i want to help the poor, and i hope i will be able to when i grow up (sounds corny but i will dammit) i do a little at school by talking to my friends, and most of the ppl i talk to listened and understood, but many wouldnt listen and laughed at the "hobos"u probably think IM generalising, i hope im wrong with everything i say, and i hope the ppl i talk about will grow up to accept and understand poverty, and more and more ppl will stop ignoring society's(?) problems and do something about it, or else itll get worse.read Batman: Cult, an extremely violent and graphic detail of a capitalist society gone wrong. and dont think batman and comics r 'trash' they r just a 'art book' if u will i had to get that off my back, bastards at school, so selfish and clueless, living a sheltered life, laughing at things they dont understand •Wax Resident Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Oct 04, 2002 Location: Royal Military Collage, Duntroon Total Topics: 132 Total Posts: 166 #23 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 2, 2004 - 3:34 AM: u cant just generalise and say, "I say one homeless person pickpocket this businessman, therefore all homeless pickpockets r thieves!" Not all pickpockets are theives? Then what's the point of pickpocketing? •Kerrie Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Apr 26, 2002 Total Topics: 10 Total Posts: 9 #24 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 2, 2004 - 8:38 AM: Dark Prince wrote: I have a concept of hunger, since I am the Epitome of the starving college student that lives off white rice and cheap soy milk. And I likewise do charity work at a soup kitchen occasionally. Despite my poverty though I despise fast food. As should any with any culinary taste, no matter how impoverished!you sound so oppressed...how noble of you to deny yourself nourishing food to further educate yourself...i guess it was wrong of me to drop out of college because i had no help from anyone to pay my tuition yet still had to feed and house myself... •sensabile Tenured Poser Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Location: London Total Topics: 127 Total Posts: 104 #25 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 2, 2004 - 1:55 PM: James Yoshinobu Iha wrote:u cant just generalise and say, "I say one homeless person pickpocket this businessman, therefore all homeless pickpockets r thieves!" or "dont give money to the poor, theyll just spend it on crack, not food."thats just pure stupidity based on selfishness and ignorance, as someone stated above, wat about that veteran with no friends or family, r u thinking "well his time is up, hes done his job of defending our country and saving future generations, i wont give him 1 cent, now lets go to buy another mobile phone or another $2999 plasma tv!"i go to a private school in the heart of sydney cbd, and i see homeless ppl all around us when i walk from the train station to school. i know im privileged, and extremely lucky, but all the ppl around me r ignorant, and think all homeless ppl r useless drug abusing alcoholics. its a pain going to this rich school with spoilt rich brats mouthing off homeless ppl while talkin on$300 mobile phones, buying $100 brand jeans, bragging about their$3000 computers, it just makes me sick. but im different, because i know i want to help the poor, and i hope i will be able to when i grow up (sounds corny but i will dammit) i do a little at school by talking to my friends, and most of the ppl i talk to listened and understood, but many wouldnt listen and laughed at the "hobos"bastards, i hope they all get bashed repeatedly by a desperate homeless person until their brains flow out of their ears, because they havent helped out their community, just hoarding their money all to themselves so they can buy 4 cars, luxury penthouses.u probably think IM generalising, i hope im wrong with everything i say, and i hope the ppl i talk about will grow up to accept and understand poverty, and more and more ppl will stop ignoring society's(?) problems and do something about it, or else itll get worse.read Batman: Cult, an extremely violent and graphic detail of a capitalist society gone wrong. and dont think batman and comics r 'trash' they r just a 'art book' if u will i had to get that off my back, bastards at school, so selfish and clueless, living a sheltered life, laughing at things they dont understandIt's not worth judging people on something they say because when surrounded by friends people say things they don't really believe or just say it for the sake of it. Generally the people you talk of don't believe in anything so everything they say, they are saying it for the sake of it. Belief takes serious thought just like reasoning and the "bastards" you talk of probably don't think about very much other than about cars and clothes and money.If you recognise that the homeless are not as privileged then do not judge others who don't becaue it is not the person you should be judging it is the viewpoint you should be judging and reasoning against. I realised something recently and it is probably one of the major problems with modern politics and life in general:Everyone wants to blame someone other than themselves when something goes wrong. We live in a blame world now-a-days. This has led to people judging people rather than views and judging the person rather than the action or looking to blame someone rather than actually solving a problem. In England if something politically goes wrong then the Government immediately launches an inquiry and the papers begin speculating on who is going to be sacked.The drawback is that after the person is sacked and blamed there is the chance that the problem will re-occur because no one learns anything from the previous mistake. This is why politics is such a joke today because the government can get away with what ever happens just be sacking someone and the public are tricked into thinking there is a justification in this sacking and blame passing. •James Yoshinobu Iha Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Jan 23, 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 0 #26 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 3, 2004 - 2:32 AM: soz wax typoi edited it •roobarb Initiate Usergroup: Members Joined: Dec 28, 2003 Location: Australia Total Topics: 18 Total Posts: 32 #27 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 3, 2004 - 6:06 PM: top mosker wrote:As an atheist, I think "alms" to the poor is a great idea. But not so much to the poor as giving to someone who needs it. (usually the poor fit this category however) One should give when they can because what is yours is only yours until you don't have it anymore. What pisses me off is when people look down upon givng some spare change to a bum. "They should get a job" "Don't give them money, it will only encourage begging" "They're just going to buy drugs" etc etc etc. If you have ever said this in your life, you should seriously consider suicide as an option as you have lost most if not all of your humanity and even the bum on the corner deserves to live more than you.What about the situation when someone asks for money for food. I offer to give them or buy them some food, but that is often met with a disdainful reply. If you are really needy you would be happy to recieve this act of charity. And who the fuck are you to tell me that I should commit suicide because I don't wish to simply hand out money to everyone who asks for it. I have worked bloody hard at uni, etc. Struggled to survive week to week on the small allowance I recieved from the government (as have many here no doubt). Why should I simply hand money en masse to help them continuw to live of others kind-heartedness. Some people do genuinely need help surviving but many do it as an option to working. I have known a few "professional" beggars who earn \$100-400+ a day. So my humanity is fine in that I am encouraging others to actively take a role in bettering their own lives.RobertGuy who is in a bad mood today!!!!! •norahjean Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Feb 14, 2004 Total Topics: 0 Total Posts: 0 #28 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 16, 2004 - 6:56 AM: Christ said ( in so many words) that the measure of our love is only as good as the way we treat the least fortunate in our society. Personally I think its best to give money to a repuatable charity that will get what is needed to help the poor the best,,,,not just hand out cash on the street. •jdebar Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Jan 12, 2004 Total Topics: 1 Total Posts: 9 #29 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 16, 2004 - 12:04 PM: There but for the grace of God go I . . . ? •Chien Newbie Usergroup: Members Joined: Aug 24, 2003 Total Topics: 9 Total Posts: 0 #30 - Quote - Permalink Posted Feb 19, 2004 - 4:01 AM: Here is a post I put on an objectivist forum regarding the virtue of Randian selfishness and the "evils of altruism":According to Ms. Rand, the "exact meaning" of selfishness is "concern with one's own interests" (VOS, vii). Every single human being is self-interested. Being self interested is not immoral in almost all ethical system. The normal everyday definition of the word selfishness does not have the philosophical implications that Ms. Rand feared.Here is the breakdown of selfish vs. altruistic behaviors and their respective beneficiaries.(1) Acts that benefit the actor but has no effect on others. Almost all ethical systems sanction this.(2) Acts that benefit the actor and also benefit others. Almost all ethical systems sanction this. (3) Acts that benefit the actor but harm others. Almost all ethical systems prohibit this. THIS IS THE EVERYDAY MEANING OF THE WORD SELFISHNESS.(4) Acts that harm the actor but has no effect on others. Almost all ethical systems prohibit this.(5) Acts that harm the actor but benefit others. This is where objectist ethics diverge with most ethical systems. Most ethical systems say sacrificing time, money, energy to help others is a virtue, under certain conditions. THIS IS THE EVERYDAY MEANING OF THE WORD ALTRUISM. Objectivists believe if there is nothing in it for them, they have no ethical obligation to help others. (6) Acts that harm the actor and also harm others. This is a no brainer; all ethical systems prohibit this.Objectivists diverge on (5) with most ethical systems which promote altruism, the behavior of (5). My example of caring for infants, elders, lame and people otherwise debilitated, people who cannot offer value greater than the cost for you to give them what they need, is the test of whether you are an objectivist or an altruist.Objectivists distort the meaning of the word "selfishness" to mean (1) and (2) instead of the everyday meaning of the word, which is (3). No ethical system that I know of object to (1) and (2); All ethical system that I am aware of are in agreement with Ms. Rand's "selfishness" as a virtue, ie (1) and (2). Striped of the specialized lingo, there's nothing provacative about Ms. Rand's selfishness.