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General vs. Specific.
Where is the link between God's (non)existence and any specific religion?

General vs. Specific.

Abdulation
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Posted 05/07/08 - 05:11 AM: Subject: General vs. Specific.	#1
Religious people never seek to establish this crucial link. They move from metaphysics directly to imply that everything in the Bible is true. They switch from talking about a first cause to the Christian(or any other) God without any sound connection. Of course any religion is premised on the existence of a certain god, and it is basic to seek to prove that a god exists for the validity and credibility of that religion. However, there is this huge gap between religion as a mythological, historical rubric and any philosophical rambling about the (non)existence of a first or sufficient cause.

DoctorInWaiting
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Posted 05/07/08 - 05:39 AM:	#2
I say that if religion was real, why is it not taught in History? -A way of sorting people into a moralistic society before middle age/modern philosophy. -False hope and a belief in heaven for egocentric beliefs that thier own gains of a heaven will be fulfilled. -Utilitarian policy however contradicts this as for instance in the UK 2002 census around 60 odd percent of people were christian, therefore consnsus view is that christianity and religion is right.
_____________________ "The Philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways, the point however is to change it" Marx and Engels "Freedom of conscience entails more dangers than authority and despotism." Michel Foucault Society is rebelled against if society condemns

The_Rational_Animal
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Posted 05/07/08 - 09:09 AM:	#3
Abdulation wrote: Religious people never seek to establish this crucial link. They move from metaphysics directly to imply that everything in the Bible is true. They switch from talking about a first cause to the Christian(or any other) God without any sound connection. Of course any religion is premised on the existence of a certain god, and it is basic to seek to prove that a god exists for the validity and credibility of that religion. However, there is this huge gap between religion as a mythological, historical rubric and any philosophical rambling about the (non)existence of a first or sufficient cause. Christians thrive on the ill-begotten notions or definitions of what God actually is. It is demonstratably true that the arguments they pose for the Judeo-Christian God are invalid because they are generally unspecific. This vagueness is obscure and takes intellectual devotion to uncover. Bobby Henderson, in 2005, developed the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to demonstrate what kinds of entities the Christian arguments for God allow into existence: the premises is the same, but the conclusion is obviously absurd. It seems as if, however, theists today use God as a kind of proof of a "First Cause", instead of a "First Cause" as a proof of God, which is a massive misunderstanding. Religions in the West today are founded on obscurantism and a unwillingness or apathy to the logic of the arguments. Edited by The_Rational_Animal on 05/07/08 - 09:17 AM
_____________________ "Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." ~Ayn Rand

Abdulation
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Posted 05/07/08 - 09:37 AM:	#4
Doctorinwaiting, what about the relation between religion and power? I agree about the points you mentioned but once institutionalized it would become a mechanism of power, control, and vested interests. Perhaps this is not so obvious in the West but it is in more religious societies of the Middle East, as well as it is historically evident. I agree with you Rational.

Dranu
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Posted 05/07/08 - 11:21 AM:	#5
DoctorInWaiting wrote: I say that if religion was real, why is it not taught in History? Huh? To disconnect religion/culture/politics etc. from history is to deprive a major source of historical information. How does one explain thing like the inquisition without religion? The lives of most civilized Europeans in the Middle Ages? Heck, even horrors like the Marxist's movements in Russia or the mentalities of the French Revolution? That is only scraping the surface of the behemoth! The Rational Animal wrote: Christians thrive on the ill-begotten notions or definitions of what God actually is. I will agree most arguments for God's existence are going to be rather obscure on what type of a God one can define in, that is why Christians do not limit themselves to pure reasoning. However, even in pure reasoning, looking at the terms good and evil and comparing it to the 'infinite being/that than which none greater can be conceived' we will likely come to an understanding that God is all good. Furthermore, considering that the Good and God are synonymous, the standard for goodness is the ‘infinite being.’ Now connecting that to the human is a bit tricky, as what we want is not always what is good. Depending on what we say of the human, we draw different relations between God and man. For instance, in a completely deterministic existence, evil cannot even exist as a relation! That is, in a purely determined reality, even what we call the most heinous acts are in fact perfectly good and in line with God. I recommend a read into St. Augustine's ideas on what 'evil' is to better draw the connection between the 'that than which none greater can be conceived' and the Christian God. Hope that helps! Edited by Dranu on 05/07/08 - 11:26 AM

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