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Free Will

Blowbagibway
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Posted 04/22/08 - 07:08 PM: Subject: Free Will	#1
I have this new theory of sorts I developed that kind of, well, disproves free will. Don't think of it as concrete evidence or anything, I mean it's just something that popped up. So basically, my theory states that all you actions are based off two things: 1) Environement 2) Pre-disposition/characteristics What are these two. Well, let's delve into what a "pre-disposition" is. Basically, what I mean by this is what a person is like when they are born. It's your genetic structure, the way your mind works. The way you'd react to general situations. This pre-disposition is random because when conceived, your parents can't really choose your genetical make up (unless this is Gattaca). So basically, your basic pre-disposition is random. Of course you have to build on this pre-disposition, this where the Environement takes effect. The environment is essentially everyone else's pre-dispositions mixed in with other effects that affect you. Everybody's pre-disposition has a different way of reacting to what they encouter in their environment. This basically dictates all of your actions, which means that free will is basically how you were randomly conceived...

dissonance
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Posted 04/22/08 - 09:12 PM:	#2
i'll agree with that.

Ataxia
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Posted 04/23/08 - 01:34 PM:	#3
Blowbagibway wrote: This pre-disposition is random because when conceived, your parents can't really choose your genetical make up (unless this is Gattaca). So basically, your basic pre-disposition is random. No!!! Your genetic makeup is based on the combination of your parents' DNA plus a couple of random mutations!
"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30) "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

Blowbagibway
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Posted 04/23/08 - 05:46 PM:	#4
Uhh, yeah, it's still random though...

verta-vitae
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Posted 04/23/08 - 07:24 PM:	#5
Well there are several ways to look at this. Yes your DNA is made of your parents plus w/e, but you develope by learning from your parents from 0-18/20 then you start taking in others opinions and ideas until your about 23/24, and by the time your 25 you have developed all your own ideas and belifes and from that point on stand strong. For example, your parents teach you moral and ethics by talking to you or religion or what not? then when your 18 and got all the concepts down you listen to other opinons as your parents teaching as a base. Then you result in your own belifes and ideas and live with them for the rest of your life most likely, though its possible to change. However there are a few things to consider, for example a orphan child. Some one who never had parents might have developed ideas differntly. Especially in this society, when young kids lash out, there has to be a main disiplinary sorce that esencially keeps the mind on a disciplined and sensical track or else, phycologically speaking, the front of your brain falls off taking away our abilty to rationalize. Then there are childrens parents who are unethical and dont discipline or structure the child at all. Or even just the opposite... Yes the child will have the traits and personalitys of the parents its just how its molded through life that make it oposite or a combination of the parents/mentors. Edited by verta-vitae on 04/23/08 - 07:31 PM
Life sucks eat a cookie

jeffanthonyfds
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Posted 04/23/08 - 08:06 PM:	#6
I agree with you 100%. While I can't put it concisely everything has a set of rules which determines a certain outcome, no matter how detailed those rules can get. Even you making a decision as to what you ate for dinner last night followed a set rule, even the 'random' mutations followed rules when they appeared.

Dranu
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Posted 04/23/08 - 09:14 PM:	#7
blowbagibway wrote: So basically, my theory states that all you actions are based off two things: 1) Environement 2) Pre-disposition/characteristics Well, all you got to do is make a good argument that connects the 'genetic pre-disposition' to the mind and will. In the mean time (I am being serious), I recommend pretending as if that was nonsense and act as if you have utter and complete free will, with a lack of certain obvious liberties of course. verta-vitae wrote: by the time your 25 you have developed all your own ideas and belifes and from that point on stand strong. For example, your parents teach you moral and ethics by talking to you or religion or what not? then when your 18 and got all the concepts down you listen to other opinons as your parents teaching as a base. Then you result in your own belifes and ideas and live with them for the rest of your life most likely, though its possible to change. Now, I am not very old (and thus inexperienced), but most of my own personal empirical evidence suggests there is no real solidity formed by that age (25) at all. In fact most of the changing of beliefs I have witnessed have taken place scattered across the board completely. I don't know, maybe I am only looking at changes I consider positive. Of course this is just me throwing my personal two cents in , I am sure there are some statistics that probably point to the contrary of what I have experienced. I wouldn't deny an impact of nature or nurture (both are importnat). I just don't see any clear reason for removing the free will from the equation, especially when much of my actions rest on the premise of having a free will.

verta-vitae
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Posted 04/24/08 - 10:28 AM:	#8
You always have free will Age 0-death. The pre-dispostion is how your taught and what forced learning you have in your life. Through this we develop feelings and opinions usually in our younger years and result in our own beliefs. These beliefs and opinions may be diferential or similar to those who have had majior impacts in our lives, or just a opinion you developed on your own. Then we have the free will to act on them or change them. All the while with the ability to think, and question motives, actions, and consequences. However once your settled in a opinion it can be hard to change as you get older, 25 is just a average of surveys on the development on the brain.
Life sucks eat a cookie

Ataxia
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Posted 04/24/08 - 12:29 PM:	#9
Blowbagibway wrote: Uhh, yeah, it's still random though... Uhh, no it isn't. It is predominantly the result of evolution which is not random.
"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30) "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

Blowbagibway
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Posted 04/24/08 - 12:37 PM:	#10
Evolution is bull shit. Anyways, this thread has nothing to do with that. Pre-disposition is your mind's make-up, it's coding from birth. The only way that is affected is if someone else's random coding happens to interact with yours. Sure you're faced with decisions, but your other influences and your genetic pre-disposition will result in you choosing one thing. E.g. I was born to have a mind that favors me succeeding in artistic things (i.e. writing over math). Let's say my artistic portion of my brain is 55%, and my logical portion is 45%. It's rather close. So, if my parenst whom have their chemistry at 70% math, and 60% math respectively, and they teach me to prosper in that, I will likely change my pre-disposition into a percentage favoring math. It's all random, see.

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