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Is devotion more important than religion?
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Devoutness

Mortalfool
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Posted 03/18/08 - 07:17 PM: Subject: Devoutness	#1
The world of religion is preoccupied with arguments over who is right! They argue over the name of their church, the preciseness of their doctrines, the names of their teachers, and the name of their god; the only real question that deserves an answer is, Who is devout? It seems to me that a God who is invisible to us would expect only devotion and not our enforcement of his desires for others, dictates that we present to others tarnished by our own human vanities. Those that present arguments proving that they are right clearly show a lack of devoutness to their own faith. I assume this since no religion having any truth in it can be based, and balanced, and proven by, the presumed ‘wrongness of others’. The Bible says, ‘no man knows right nor wrong by what he sees’, vain words? I think not! Mainly because I can list many things about myself that are judged wrong by others, but not by my own conscience. Since all of us are unable to judge others using our own consciences, the only right thing we can count on is ‘don’t judge’! I do however, exempt harming others from this ‘rule’. All religions can be defined as attempts by groups to sustain an analogous language of their own, that can be understood by those that agree to accept it in common; with each particular denomination having its favored form of language [doctrines], designed for what it sees as a better attempt to describe the indescribable to its devotees. No one ‘language’ is better, or more right than another! To claim that it is, is equivalent to declaring English as better, or more right, than other languages. When we missionary, we try to convince foreign people that they are lost without us, and that ‘our language’ [representing our picture of God] will enlighten them with ‘better’ words; but ultimately, they are only words trying to reveal things that are beyond all of our understandings starting with the many names of God that are called on, besides our own particularly favored choice. One must surely believe that God is magnanimous enough that he will answer to any name called upon, especially by those whose heart proves their devotion. If we are to expect any thing at all from our God, it must surely include him respecting our humble pleadings, and an acceptance of our devotions, even if we should perchance call him by the wrong name, or picture him in different garb or skin color. Edited by jdrw on 03/28/08 - 06:57 PM. Reason: restore standard font and size

AndrewWaller
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Posted 03/28/08 - 03:51 PM:	#2
Different cultures may understand God subjectively in different ways, but there are also issues about objective truths on which religions differ, and in that context I can only see it as a healthy thing for them to engage in intellectual debate.

Abiathar
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Posted 04/27/08 - 03:33 PM:	#3
The devout of faith accept the fact that not all faith's are true to their own. Anyone truly devout will, logically, also follow the rigorous paths of their religion, all of them. A Devout Christian is a man/woman who does still abide the laws of Leviticus, and there are some still in existance. A devout Buddhist will never inflict harm, etc. A man or woman is either devout or they are not. Claiming the status of 'devout' is arrogance, and as far as I can see arrogance is considered wrong by almost every religion that has ever graced the face of the planet. Any whom claim their religion is correct are not humble in their faith, another aspect shared by nearly every religion. Without the perscribed humility and adherence to dogmatic law, one is merely a token believer, as so many are.

david manz
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Posted 04/29/08 - 10:49 PM:	#4
Abiathar wrote: The devout of faith accept the fact that not all faith's are true to their own. Anyone truly devout will, logically, also follow the rigorous paths of their religion, all of them. A Devout Christian is a man/woman who does still abide the laws of Leviticus, and there are some still in existence. A devout Buddhist will never inflict harm, etc. A man or woman is either devout or they are not. Claiming the status of 'devout' is arrogance, and as far as I can see arrogance is considered wrong by almost every religion that has ever graced the face of the planet. Any whom claim their religion is correct are not humble in their faith, another aspect shared by nearly every religion. Without the perscribed humility and adherence to dogmatic law, one is merely a token believer, as so many are. Iâ€™m not sure I agree with your claim that taking on â€˜the status of devoutâ€™ makes one arrogant. All to easily we dismiss our strengths while clinging to our weaknessâ€™s. Only two things are necessary for taking on the mantle of devoutness; an honest evaluation of yourself, and truthful disclosing. Itâ€™s not â€˜arroganceâ€™ unless you take the claim undeservedly or, use it in a boastful manner. It is a boldness that to Christian believers was example[d] by Paul the Apostle of Christ. In speaking boldly about his faith he gave the credit to his God, and likened himself to a fool if that was how they chose to see him; no pride, just a disclosure of facts. The inherent humility in his â€˜bragging admissionâ€™ of his strengths, streanths he did in fact present for their evaluation as compared to themselves, shielded him from any well founded accusation of arrogance. The devotion needed to admit oneâ€™s weaknessâ€™s is nothing compared to the requirements of acknowledging your strengths. It is only the weak person that can act arrogant; it is the sincerely devoted that can both speak and act â€˜devotedâ€™. Of course thatâ€™s only my opinion

keda
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Posted 04/30/08 - 12:18 AM:	#5
Abiathar wrote: A Devout Christian is a man/woman who does still abide the laws of Leviticus, and there are some still in existance. Moses only set up a bunch of political laws. A Christian does not need to follow Jewish law for the same reasons you don't; because you are not a Jew. Did you not read the part where Jesus said, we are above the law?
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david manz
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Posted 05/01/08 - 02:34 PM:	#6
keda wrote: Moses only set up a bunch of political laws. A Christian does not need to follow Jewish law for the same reasons you don't; because you are not a Jew. Did you not read the part where Jesus said, we are above the law? I assumed that Abiathar was using the old Bible laws to make a point of what a 'devotee' would do in regards to his own guides; not necessarily meaning 'the old laws'.

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