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Desire
Is Desire endless?

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Desire

newtonsapple
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Posted 09/11/08 - 05:19 AM: Subject: Desire	#1
Hi, I have been reading a bit of Lacan and Zizek - as you may well have noticed from my previous messages - Lacanian psychoanalysis says we have endless desires (petit Objet A), best put by Slavoj Zizek: "The problem with human desire is that, as Lacan put it, it is always 'desire of the Other; in all senses of that term desire for the Other, desire to be desired by the Other, and especially, desire what the Other desires." I'm wondering if anyone else believes this to be true? Do we desire the Infinite Other (God) as well? Is it the negation of desire that makes oneself happy? Or is it limiting our desires only make our desires stronger? And I suppose are all desires inherently evil/bad? BTW, those who aren't well read in Continental philosophy, essentially the Other - is anyone but yourself.
"Is it possible that existence is our exile and nothingness our home?"

unenlightened
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Posted 09/11/08 - 09:54 AM:	#2
Hi, I'm more of an incontinental philosopher, but I would say that desire is always for the other in the sense that it is something lacking in what I am or what I have (the same thing?). so I think it always an expression of dis-content. I don't see why it should be endless, though, it seems very limited to me. I think it is always an idea, a dream of ice cream that is not here, or the neighbour's car, or the love of a woman, or of being a fine fellow in some way. It seems to be the inevitable result of having a thought identity, which is always defined in terms of separation - continental = not analytic. Does Lacan have a secret perverted desire to be a 'proper' philosopher do you think? How do you negate a desire? Is it the same as repression? I rather prefer the thought that by understanding the nature of desire as mere thought, it loses its overwhelming force, and one can be somewhat free of it, as distinct from free from it.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

The Escapist
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0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 09/11/08 - 11:39 AM:	#3
newtonsapple wrote: I'm wondering if anyone else believes this to be true? Do we desire the Infinite Other (God) as well? No, complete nonsense. Some desires are related to other people, some aren't. Some people imagine they desire God, but God is just an invention. If I was you newtonsapple I would find something better to read.

unenlightened
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Posted 09/12/08 - 04:59 AM:	#4
So, Escapist, perhaps you can explain how to tell the difference between real and imaginary desires? Are you saying that any desire which is not for 'stuff' is imaginary? Money is just an invention.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

wuliheron
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Posted 09/12/08 - 06:09 AM:	#5
Ego is the source of desire and as far as ego is concerned desire and suffering are endless. However, there are times when our ego is forgotten, if only for a moment. When desire is gone, spontenaity remains because desire always inhabits the past and future.

The Escapist
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Posted 09/12/08 - 06:23 AM:	#6
unenlightened wrote: So, Escapist, perhaps you can explain how to tell the difference between real and imaginary desires? Are you saying that any desire which is not for 'stuff' is imaginary? Money is just an invention. No, I'm not saying the desire for God is imaginary, I'm saying it's a desire for something imaginary, something which doesn't exist. When I say "God is just an invention" I mean that it doesn't exist. Money is an invention, but not "just" an invention, money does exist. How exactly it exists is an interesting topic, but not relevant to this thread.

unenlightened
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Posted 09/12/08 - 07:10 AM:	#7
Then you don't seem to be saying anything very much. If I desire a Rolls-Royce, then even if it is the real one that I see on the street, I imagine it as mine when obviously it isn't. Where is the "complete nonsense" in what newtonsapple wrote?
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

The Escapist
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Posted 09/13/08 - 02:23 AM:	#8
unenlightened wrote: Where is the "complete nonsense" in what newtonsapple wrote? It's in what his pseudy sources wrote. That all desire is desire for "the other", and that we all have a desire for "the infinite other", i.e. God. That is just pretentious rubbish. Look at the people around you unenlightened, people in the supermarket, in your street, ask yourself if this sort of bullshit applies to them. Of course it doesn't, the only people who go around wondering if we have a desire for the infinite other are posers with too much time on their lilywhite hands.

unenlightened
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Posted 09/13/08 - 07:58 AM:	#9
A pseudy source wrote: "The problem with human desire is that, as Lacan put it, it is always 'desire of the Other; in all senses of that term desire for the Other, desire to be desired by the Other, and especially, desire what the Other desires." This seems fairly true, in the sense that I always desire what I am not or have not, and so it is 'other' than me. (no 'infinite' here) newtonsapple wrote: Do we desire the Infinite Other (God) as well? I take it that you can answer "no" on a personal level to this question. However, it looks to me as if quite a lot of people can answer "yes", since religion is fairly widespread. Indeed I rather feel that a lot of the people I see in the supermarket are indeed worshipping the infinite other with their credit cards. I may be wrong about that, but I don't see why you call the question complete nonsense. It almost seems as if you have some absolute yourself, that you are trying to defend. The Escapist wrote: ...the only people who go around wondering if we have a desire for the infinite other are posers with too much time on their lilywhite hands. Is this an argument?
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Nick_m
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Posted 09/13/08 - 08:27 AM:	#10
Maybe a distinction can be made between desire and fulfillment. To desire is to 'want that', whereas fulfillment is personal satisfaction in both oneself and the world at large, and is necessarily free of desire. We see, however, that satisfaction of one desire rarely brings fulfillment for long, so the trick is to think you have enough already, or that you can live with what you have now. To extend this period of fulfillment is surely one major way of living well, and to avoid the desire-satisfaction cycle.

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