Please note: because you're not logged in, you may be viewing older cached versions of pages which are served up to reduce server load.
Print Deja Vu | |
|
xavaloy
Aspirant Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Total Topics: 1 Total Posts: 21 |
 #31
Distortion wrote: this is the 3rd time now i've just had this deja vu' or, better yet, I get deja vu's of deja vu's. The exact way I describe it ... deja vous of a deja vous! I just had one before I wrote this and felt the need to understand more about it. Let me just say that I almost always experience it after somehow consuming something or doing something which could potentially alter my body temporarily. For example I just finished having a cup of tea (nice mix of chemicals) watching television and I began a deja vous episode. It was in fact a deja vous of a deja vous and it went on for about 30 seconds, evolving to each way I reacted to the event (the deja vous incorporated the way I react to it). Its almost like playback in my head. I truly believe it is something to do with the bio chemistry in the brain, I have read various papers that also suggest this. It is a euphoric yet disturbing experience ... but when I tell people they seem to not understand the power of the deja vous' I have, they only have minor experiences. Good to see such information available and discussion open to matters such as this. Xavier |
|
Socrastein
Looking to understand  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jan 28, 2004 Location: A desolate sea of bollocks Total Topics: 44 Total Posts: 2181 |
#32
Sure you can make a logical guess and get it right, but have any of you really been able to fortell the events to come? Not too long ago while in a car I had my head down and was looking at my hand. The exact picture of my hand and the dash triggered the start of a deja vu that lasted a good 10 seconds. However, contrary to the firing synapses and chemical spurts that many deja vu are explained away by, I actually knew what was going to happen before it happened. My 10 sec deja flashed in my mind in about 1/2 a second, before I even looked away from my hand, so I thought of the green car turning left that I would look up and see out the right window - there it was. I looked up and knew the light would change green in right after the bird flew over the pole - there goes the bird, and hey, there goes the green light. Then I "remembered" the bicyclist who would be riding by in his spandex attire from my back right. I turned to sure enough see him riding up exactly as I "remembered" him, then I looked over to see a rather trivial scene of cars passing one another and such, knowing exactly how they would do so, seeing as how I had already pictured it just recently. Beats the hell out of me how one would try to scientifically explain such an event. I have no problem postulating that when I get that "feeling" that something already happened as it happens it is just a misfire in my brain, but until scientists find the precognitive chemical that was splooged all over my brain that day, I have no problem asserting that there is more to deja vu than the common skeptic would have you believe. And Paul, I'm not sure what the people are like where you come from, but in my experience, the person who has never had deja vu is always the minority. Ah, and I'd like to add on to the growing list of paranormal experiments that shake the foundation of scientific rationality - I saw an entire documentary a while back on an experiment that involved a man "channeling" images of random paintings he was shown at night to an isolated "receiver" in another room. The "receiver" would then go to sleep, and the next morning would be interrogated as to what, if any, images he saw in his dreams. 4/5 times he accurately and amazingly described overall concepts and exact details of the various paintings that had been shown to the "channeler". The one they didn't count wasn't even wrong, the scientists just felt that he hadn't described enough of the painting for it to be considered beyond coincidence. "The time has come for people of reason to say enough is enough. Religious faith discourages independent thought, it's devisive, and it's dangerous." -Richard Dawkins |
|
Nihilistic Locomotive
Coprophagic coprophobic  Usergroup: Members Joined: Nov 27, 2003 Total Topics: 69 Total Posts: 1809 |
#33
This sounds likely to be the experiments of Stanley Kripper and Montague Ullman, who by Scott Peck's opinion, "conclusively demonstrated" that an awake individual is able to 'transmit' images to sleeping individuals many rooms away. There are specific types of Deja Vu. The most well known and commonly experienced are called redintegration according to American Heritage Dictionary, refering to an "evocation of a particular state of mind resulting from the recurrence of one of the elements that made up the original experience." The etymology is "to make whole again." This kind of Deja Vu comes about when you feel that you have relived a previous activity. From personal experience I find this kind to be the most common and is usually accompanied more by an intense feeling of reoccurence and NOT so much an objective image of what is actually going to take place. For me it is pure reflection on the fact that I feel to be in a state already experienced. The theory is that your brain stores a vast amount of data of an experience and when redintegration occurs some kind of stimulus integrates and precipitates a full memory or paralleling experience. The most intense experience of redintegration happened while I was under the effects of illicit drugs. Therefore it might not seem to be credible and in accord with naturally occuring Deja vu. I was in a room with about 4 individuals, all of whom I knew very well. I sat in the corner watching dialogue between friends, when a tremendous sense of deja vu occured. I perceived then, though the content of the dialogue going on before me varied on each occasion in the expression of objective meaning, the pattern through which the dialogue occured was very repititious. The body language and tones of voice seemed almost circular. If man in general shares unconscious routine in language expression then there must be a base shared by all for unconscious communication. In my belief, to give man the essence of freedom of will you demand of him the full content and authority of will over his mind, not just the conscious part, which is smaller in the range of its reflection. The order of dreams is just important to the understanding of free will as anything else. Undeniably there is a connection between dreaming and redintegration, as well as such synonomous and extending terms as God's providence or Grace as depicted within literature, the idea of ESP, and synchronicity as well. What was the state of man but the sensory overload of his own scatological con(fusion)s? Whoa man! |
|
xxuxx
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Aug 06, 2002 Total Topics: 100 Total Posts: 1185 |
#34
Distortion, two years ago you were posting threads about Deja Vu, now I know this may be a mournful witicism, but I'm getting Deja Vu. How many times can you talk about Deja Vu without going over old ground. Jesus man. Just for whatever, I get Deja Vu on a regular basis and I'm trying to stop it. There I contributed, now get a life. I work for a paint company now, and I want a girlfriend. You're still posting on philosophy forums. Wow, I'm like so totally better than you. Helllllo!!!! |
|
Distortion
Oh yeah?  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: May 08, 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Total Topics: 46 Total Posts: 1761 |
#35
xxuxx wrote: Distortion, two years ago you were posting threads about Deja Vu, now I know this may be a mournful witicism, but I'm getting Deja Vu. How many times can you talk about Deja Vu without going over old ground. Jesus man. Just for whatever, I get Deja Vu on a regular basis and I'm trying to stop it. There I contributed, now get a life. I work for a paint company now, and I want a girlfriend. You're still posting on philosophy forums. Wow, I'm like so totally better than you. Helllllo!!!! -03-25-04, 04:47 AM The timestamp / date at the top of this thread: 08-16-02, 03:42 AM You're out to lunch if you think I reposted it, someone just felt the need to add to it a while after the fact... But anyhow, take a load off man! Make your own rules. |
|
rabeldin
Probabalistic Philosopher  Usergroup: Members Joined: Oct 06, 2003 Location: Puerto Rico Total Topics: 29 Total Posts: 5427 |
#36
This month's SciAm has an item which discusses the therapeutic effects of an MRI on persons with bipolar disease. It seems that the induced currents act like a mental pacemaker. Leave no assumption unquestioned. |
|
mista_bob
Graduate Usergroup: Members Joined: Dec 08, 2003 Location: The Rockies Total Topics: 30 Total Posts: 200 |
#37
I not only frequently have deja vu, but also some weird psychic-type experiences. For example, on many occasions I have had dreams where I've done something only to have the dream come true within a week's time. This hasn't happened a few times, but literally hundreds of times over many years time. I remember one time back in highschool I had a dream where I was talking to this girl in the halls and seemed to know her very well yet I had no idea who she was and didn't recognize her. A week later, a new girl came to school, and not surprisingly I found myself talking to her in the hallway like I had known her all my life. She said I looked very familiar, like she had seen me in a dream, and was stunned to find out I had the same feeling of deja vu and had had a dream about her before I even knew her. Another such instance happened last fall before the college semester started. I had a dream where I was at college talking to a girl outside, who I had worked with 4 years before. I hadn't seen her since I quit the job, but she was in my dream clear as day. A few weeks afterward, the college semester had started and I was walking across the lawn in front of my college. I suddenly got cold shivers even though I was standing in the sun and felt as though I had done this before. I kept walking although I felt extremely odd like someone was watching me. I turned around to find the girl I hadn't seen for 4 years, except in my dream, now standing behind me staring at me. We then began talking only to have her admit she felt like she was having deja vu, like this had happened before. I stated I had had a dream exactly like this only a couple weeks prior. She was shocked, of course, as was I. The girl in the second story is now my girlfriend. We get along extremely well and can essentially read each other minds, or so it would seem. She thinks we're "soul-mates," and quite frankly it wouldn't surprise me even though I'm not completely decided on my metaphysical/religious beliefs. An example of me reading her thoughts happened only a week ago. I was sitting at a table when she walked up, sat down, and stated, "You should have seen what we did in my lab last night!" I suddenly and surprisingly blurted out "Tracheiotomies?!" without even thinking. Her eyes widened and she whispered, "... yeah... we did." How I knew that is completely unclear to me, especially since I had no way of knowing even which lab class she was talking about since she has two lab classes on that night and I had no idea even what topic they were studying. Countless other times I've had deja vu and psychic predictions. I'll go to parties where I'll suddenly say without thinking, "I think the cops are coming." And remarkably, every single time I've said something like that without thinking twice about it and just saying whatever comes to mind, it comes true. It's very odd, indeed. And actually, I don't know if my perception is getting sharper or what, but I'm having more and more of these moments every day, from deja vu, to psychic events, to clairvoyance while dreaming. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I have been practicing meditation and taking a class on astral projection just for curiousity's sake. My Art/Wallpapers |
|
mista_bob
Graduate Usergroup: Members Joined: Dec 08, 2003 Location: The Rockies Total Topics: 30 Total Posts: 200 |
#38
Wow, I just realized that was probably the longest reply I've ever made. My Art/Wallpapers |
|
tambourine-man
Owner Of A Remote Contol  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Jan 13, 2004 Location: Leeds, UK Total Topics: 26 Total Posts: 724 |
#39
I regularly had Deja-Vu as a child - sometimes 4 or 5 times every week. Unfortunately, I have no recollection of what was happening at the time, or whether I was experiencing events in my day-to-day life that correllated with the Deja-Vu itself. These days, I'm lucky if it happens once every two months.  I'm not particularly convinced by the idea of past lives - most of the Deja Vu experiences I've had throughout my life have included very specific details, and my penchant for more psychological... actually, let me explain - it's easier that way. When I was experiencing Deja-Vu on almost a daily basis, I started to train myself (forgive me if I sound like a monk) to 'accept the moment', not to be 'weirded out', but to concentrate on the feeling and to explore the way in which it worked. I found that once I accepted Deja-Vu as just another aspect of consciousness - rather than going "WOW... this feels weird" - I was able to prolong the experience and almost immerse myself. In other words, when I was prepared for it's onset and unsurprised by it's presence, I was able to enjoy the experience. This is important. Before this personal discovery, I considered Deja-Vu as something that was strange... something you'd ask your parents about, but not something extraordinary - after all, you're reading the post of a man who, as a child, plugged an Acorn-Electron computer adaptor into a wall socket and put the live cable on the tip of his tongue. Anyay, I digress. Once I'd found a way of prolonging the experience I started playing around with my perception of objects surrounding me at the time of onset. So for example, I'd look at details of a book cover, a sandwich box, a pen - and with each observation would go the thought "I knew I was going to look at that". Also, more random, uncontrolable observations were included, I may also see a man wearing a brown coat, or hear a dog barking... both of which were unique* and out of my control, and both of which were accompanied with the feeling that "I knew that would be next" or "It feels like I've been here before". * Strictly speaking, hearing a dog barking or seeing a man wearing a brown coat is not unique, but I offer them as examples of individual objects and events that I was unfamiliar with - as opposed to a book cover I'd been reading earlier. More pointedly, their presence was not of my own doing. I also began to notice that I could not prolong the experience indefinitely. As most Deja-Vu-ees will know, when the feeling stops, you're ususally left with a sense of semi-confusion or, as I used to experience, that you had experienced almost quasi-isolation, that everyone else had gone about their daily lives without the slightest comprehension of what you'd just experienced. Over time, the final few seconds of Deja-Vu were usually characterised by a gradual fade, rather than an abrupt halt into 'normal' consciousness. I usually spent the next few minutes reflecting (I was a strange child... as the adaptor story should testify), trying to figure out what had gone on and what had happened to make it stop. In later life I noticed that a feeling very similar to my childhood experiences of Deja-Vu, sometimes occurrs when I'm exhausted by lack of sleep (rather than overworking). This leads me to the point of the story, most of the 'accepted theories' of Deja-Vu revolve around some sort of cognitive model - the idea being that the experience of perception doesn't transfer from a memory buffer into short-term memory (or from short-term to long-term, depending on you model preference), and that the resultant experience is one of immediately 're-living' everything. The theory would suggest that because this cognitive cock-up occurs so quickly, you do not percieve two clear caveats of time, more that you experience a blurring of time (It may help to imagine holding two identical photo-negatives up to the light, and offsetting them slightly) and that the naked experience is covered - and masked - by the 'weirdness' or unfamiliarity felt. Punch through the weirdness and become accustomed to the experience, and you percieve the experience unobscured by emotion. I've got to say, although I tend to loathe cognitive models and loathe even further, models that attempt to 'fit the facts', I feel that this explaination (almost) adequately explains Deja-Vu. How it would explain an ability to prolong such a malfunction is perhaps more complicated - any ideas? I can't offer any particular proof and I am naturally bound by subjectivity - but that's Deja-Vu I suppose. Nice post Distortion. 
Vote NOTA...!!! |
|
dreamweaver
Web we Weave  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Nov 29, 2003 Location: London, UK Total Topics: 21 Total Posts: 2038 |
#40
The theories surrounding déjà vu are increasingly interesting. Even with the plethora of studies in it, there don't seem to be definitive conclusions on the matter. It was thought for hundreds, possibly thousands, of years that it was something that happened in a previous lifetime; so, this theory is generally maintained by those adhering to theories of metempsychosis (re-incarnation). In modern thinking and neurophysiologic research, this has generally been abandoned and most scientists favour the theory that it is an "anomaly of a memory". That is, that the memory is faulty, incorrect, never happened. This perhaps explains why sometimes you cannot recall much of the previous memory, while you remember the current one clearly. This is also backed up to some extent by the fact that there seems to be a palpable correlation of déjà vu with those that have schizophrenia and, in particular, lobe epilepsy. It appears that the chance of one having one of these disorders increases the chance of them having the experience. In the neuropsychiatric group, déjà vu experienced by temporal lobe epileptics was characterized by ictal and postepileptic features, such as stereotypical other temporal lobe features with headache, clouded consciousness and sleepiness afterwards. This type of experience did not occur in schizophrenics, whose déjà vu experiences were characterized by psychotic intrusions. The data support the empirical validation of the Neppe Déjà Vu Questionnaire, the first of its kind. http://www.pni.org/books/deja_vu_info.html On another note, I get Déjà vu every so often; it’s interesting and sometimes frustrating though when I try to recall the previous event. But we just seem so sure that the previous event occurred. 
Dos moi pou sto kai kino taen gaen. ~ Archimedes |
Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.