Debate 5 Discussion: Whether zombies are possible: Philosophy Forums

Page: 1 2 3 4

Debate 5 Discussion: Whether zombies are possible

Machiveli
post-philosopher

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Aug 19, 2004

Total Topics: 122
Total Posts: 1282

Posted 08/25/04 - 03:12 PM:	#11
Its a tough topic - I wouldnt like to call or argue either position. so my respect to the debaters. I thought I'd raise an issue that I dont think would be covered. It seems they are interpreting zombies in the strict sense of being physicaly identical down to the last neuron. Thus we essentialy get to dualism. But if we relax the restriction a little and just concider "could zombies exist which behave exactly like consious humans but are not consious" its a little like a reverse turing test. It seems clear that you could concievably build a machine that could pass the turning test. It would also seem strange if it were impossible to pass it without making a consious machine. This brings in another interesting angle i.e If it is possible for something to have richness of behaviour and not be consious. What evolutionary advantage does consiousness have? Why would evolution not create zombies if such a thing were possible in a behavioural sense?

phenyl_engine_rods
Student

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Location: Exiled from Canada

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 96

Posted 08/25/04 - 03:39 PM:	#12
Just a stupid, pedantic note from someone who's in over his head on this topic: "qualia" is plural. The singular is "quale".

Andrew Saunders
Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 08, 2004

Total Topics: 31
Total Posts: 945

Posted 08/26/04 - 04:30 PM:	#13
I will debate a related topic: zombie-hammers. Zombie-hammers are hammers that appear to be normal hammers, but they do not actually cause nails to be driven. A zombie hammer is exactly identical to a normal hammer in every way, except when it strikes a nail, and the nail is driven, it is not actually the hammer driving the nail. It is entirely possible that there is another force there, that is actually driving the nail. No matter what you say, you cannot disprove zombie-hammers. There is no way of knowing whether the hammer and the nail driving go hand in hand, or if the nail driving aspect of the hammer is an effect of another simultaneous force.

flatliner
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Total Topics: 44
Total Posts: 1766

0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 08/26/04 - 11:16 PM:	#14
phenyl_engine_rods wrote: Just a stupid, pedantic note from someone who's in over his head on this topic: "qualia" is plural. The singular is "quale". Who the hell cares whether the word for an imaginary entity is plural or not? I wish the crap would go away. Who is responsible for throwing this nonsense onto the philosophical stage?
What is this, a school for ants?! http://www.specialdefects.com/v1/embed/heart_preloader.html

flatliner
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Total Topics: 44
Total Posts: 1766

Posted 08/26/04 - 11:20 PM:	#15
Andrew Saunders wrote: I will debate a related topic: zombie-hammers. Zombie-hammers are hammers that appear to be normal hammers, but they do not actually cause nails to be driven. A zombie hammer is exactly identical to a normal hammer in every way, except when it strikes a nail, and the nail is driven, it is not actually the hammer driving the nail. It is entirely possible that there is another force there, that is actually driving the nail. No matter what you say, you cannot disprove zombie-hammers. There is no way of knowing whether the hammer and the nail driving go hand in hand, or if the nail driving aspect of the hammer is an effect of another simultaneous force. The difference here, if you are trying to draw an analogy, is that the zombie debate is metaphysical, you point is epistemic. Whether or not we can know the zombie is a zombie is irrelevant to whether or not zombies are possible. Of course, if they are impossible, then we know nothing is a zombie. But it doesn't follow that they are impossible from the fact that we don't know if we are talking and playing chess with them or not.
What is this, a school for ants?! http://www.specialdefects.com/v1/embed/heart_preloader.html

EntropicOrder
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 07, 2002
Location: Ohio

Total Topics: 15
Total Posts: 319

0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 08/27/04 - 09:22 AM:	#16
I wonder what percentage of real human beings would fail the Turing test if they were suspected of being a robot or a zombie. I bet it would be high.
My game sites: http://www.entropicorder.net, http://www.plushquest.com My giant stuffed animal store: http://www.mybigplush.com "But the wise man neither rejects life nor fears death. For living does not offend him, nor does he believe not living to be any evil." - Epicurus

flatliner
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Total Topics: 44
Total Posts: 1766

Posted 08/27/04 - 06:14 PM:	#17
I would fail it. I have a lot on my mind.
What is this, a school for ants?! http://www.specialdefects.com/v1/embed/heart_preloader.html

Ethereal
Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 12, 2003

Total Topics: 12
Total Posts: 507

1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 08/29/04 - 01:02 AM:	#18
Andrew Saunders wrote: No matter what you say, you cannot disprove zombie-hammers. There is no way of knowing whether the hammer and the nail driving go hand in hand, or if the nail driving aspect of the hammer is an effect of another simultaneous force. Exactly the point. If you can't disprove the existence of zombie-hammers, you can't say that they don't exist. The same goes for existents such as invisible pink elephants, undetectable dragons. The only sensible thing to say is that there isn't any good reason to believe they exist.

MathematicalPhysics Wizard
Quantum-Gravity Mechanic

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 02, 2003

Total Topics: 105
Total Posts: 739

Posted 08/30/04 - 09:01 AM:	#19
Darcho wrote: Has anyone seen the movie "Resident Evil?" The way that the virus turns people into zombies seems somewhat plausible. seeing?! i played it, finished RE 2 and 3.
"What kind of a bomb is this? The exploding kind." Peter Sellers

MathematicalPhysics Wizard
Quantum-Gravity Mechanic

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 02, 2003

Total Topics: 105
Total Posts: 739

1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 08/30/04 - 09:06 AM:	#20
Andrew Saunders wrote: I will debate a related topic: zombie-hammers. Zombie-hammers are hammers that appear to be normal hammers, but they do not actually cause nails to be driven. A zombie hammer is exactly identical to a normal hammer in every way, except when it strikes a nail, and the nail is driven, it is not actually the hammer driving the nail. It is entirely possible that there is another force there, that is actually driving the nail. No matter what you say, you cannot disprove zombie-hammers. There is no way of knowing whether the hammer and the nail driving go hand in hand, or if the nail driving aspect of the hammer is an effect of another simultaneous force. your approach actually argues that everything science tries to explain (the the force acting on the hammer is mechanical) is useless, and perhaps science cant explain everything but it gives a desriptional information and most of our life is based on descriptions which value varies from one to another.
"What kind of a bomb is this? The exploding kind." Peter Sellers

Page: 1 2 3 4

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.