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Creation from Nothing

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Creation from Nothing
NothingtoSay
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Posted 11/10/09 - 04:34 PM:
Subject: Creation from Nothing 		quote post
#1
I was thinking about how some people would say that God created everything from nothing, and I was wondering if those people put into account that God is (or exists, though I don't like to use 'exists' when I discuss God). See, I'm asking myself, "How can there be nothing and God at the same time? For I obviously consider God to be an existing Being--actually I consider Him to be the ultimate Being."

I don't think I agree with the idea that God created the world from nothing, because for there to be nothing, it seems to me, there would have to be no God, I think.

What do you think about this idea of creation from nothing? What do you think nothing is, if you have something different in mind? Any thoughts or observations?
mtboger
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Posted 11/10/09 - 04:41 PM:
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#2
I think this goes along with how time does not apply to God. He is able to create the universe out of nothing since the laws of nature also don't apply to him. He is on a whole different level than we are. Another question like this is what was God doing before he created the universe? I believe we will never understand these questions.
mtboger
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Posted 11/10/09 - 04:43 PM:
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#3
Another thing is, we can never think in terms of nothingness. Its contradictory to say we can.
NothingtoSay
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Posted 11/10/09 - 04:45 PM:
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#4
But this is what I am thinking: God is 'something;' how can there be nothing when there is God in the first place?
NothingtoSay
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Posted 11/10/09 - 04:55 PM:
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#5
mtboger wrote:
Another thing is, we can never think in terms of nothingness. Its contradictory to say we can.


Take 5 sided triangles, for example. When I define a triangle as something with three sides and three angles, and define five sides as, well... five sides, and then try to form the idea of five-sided triangles, I get this block because I try to sort of break, I think, the limits I create. But I've noticed that I still see the boundaries of my thought (5 sides, triangle; three sides, three angles). Maybe the thought of nothingness is only found from its boundaries as well, given how one defines the thoughts he uses to form it. Then again, would you say that this is sufficient enough information for a thought? Though I have not looked it. I actually still haven't compared formed thoughts to unformed thoughts... What would you say?

Edited by NothingtoSay on 11/10/09 - 05:04 PM
mtboger
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Posted 11/10/09 - 05:30 PM:
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#6
I see what you mean. My only thought is that God, the supreme being, is greater than nothingness. Therefore he needs no space in order to be.

As for the 5 sided triangle. I think the thought is present, even though it is not a 5-sided triangle. Instead it might be an overlap of the idea of a pentagon and the idea of a triangle. This is still considered something, and nothingness is the opposite of something. So you can't say nothingness is something.
aletheist
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Posted 11/10/09 - 07:13 PM:
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#7
NothingtoSay wrote:
I don't think I agree with the idea that God created the world from nothing, because for there to be nothing, it seems to me, there would have to be no God, I think.
Right--out of nothing, nothing comes; that is a key premise of cosmological arguments for the existence of God. When people say that God created everything from nothing, what they mean is that God created everything from nothing else; he did not just rearrange pre-existing "stuff".
"Be attentive. Be intelligent. Be reasonable. Be responsible." - Bernard Lonergan (1904-1984)
NothingtoSay
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Posted 11/11/09 - 11:02 AM:
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mtboger wrote:
I see what you mean. My only thought is that God, the supreme being, is greater than nothingness. Therefore he needs no space in order to be.

As for the 5 sided triangle. I think the thought is present, even though it is not a 5-sided triangle. Instead it might be an overlap of the idea of a pentagon and the idea of a triangle. This is still considered something, and nothingness is the opposite of something. So you can't say nothingness is something.


Now actually I still haven't looked into what these unformed thoughts are, really. But all I'm saying is that I think that maybe nothingness is an unformed thought, just like an eight-sided circle is. What ideas do you use to form the idea of 'nothingness'? For example, I'd say that I think that formlessness is one of the ideas I use to form the idea of nothingness.

Also, I think we should look into boundaries and relativity between a something and nothingness. How can there be nothingness, if that nothingness is bounded by something existing in that nothingness? I mean, wouldn't you say that that nothing would have a form in the sense that the existing something gives it form? Imagine nothingness and an existing apple in that nothingness. Wouldn't we say that that nothingness is something given how it is, it appears, bounded or limited by the existing object's (apple's) shape?

Edited by NothingtoSay on 11/11/09 - 12:41 PM
NothingtoSay
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Posted 11/11/09 - 12:36 PM:
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aletheist wrote:
Right--out of nothing, nothing comes; that is a key premise of cosmological arguments for the existence of God. When people say that God created everything from nothing, what they mean is that God created everything from nothing else; he did not just rearrange pre-existing "stuff".


As in, God created the world from Himself, in a sense at least? Because that's what I'm thinking.
aletheist
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Posted 11/11/09 - 02:49 PM:
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#10
NothingtoSay wrote:
As in, God created the world from Himself, in a sense at least? Because that's what I'm thinking.
I would not put it that way. Again, God did not just rearrange pre-existing "stuff" when he created the universe; not even his own "stuff". After all, God is spirit, but the universe is material--two different kinds of "stuff". Time, space, energy, and matter did not exist--in any form--until God created them. Of course, the word "until" is problematic, since we are talking about the beginning of time itself, but hopefully you get what I mean.
"Be attentive. Be intelligent. Be reasonable. Be responsible." - Bernard Lonergan (1904-1984)
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