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Converting away from moral nihilism or scepticism
You like polls, right?

What is your moral status?
never been morally nihilist or sceptical	180 Proof, The_Rational_Animal, cadpat_knight, unenlightened, kris, peeted	6	25%
currently morally nihilist or sceptical, <2yrs	2gontaf2, Atrytone, wu	3	13%
currently morally nihilist or sceptical, 2-4yrs	The Joker, Ibrahim, Wolfman, absurdmike	4	17%
currently morally nihilist or sceptical, 4-8yrs	mercmisfire, Postmodern Beatnik, Deftil, FreeRadical	4	17%
currently morally nihilist or sceptical, >8yrs	dclements, Elginb	2	8%
was morally nihilist or sceptical for <2yrs	kouk, at, swstephe	3	13%
was morally nihilist or sceptical for 2-4yrs	klubbit	1	4%
was morally nihilist or sceptical for 4-8yrs		0	0%
was morally nihilist or sceptical for >8yrs	ManiacJack	1	4%
24 votes

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Converting away from moral nihilism or scepticism

e00
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Posted 03/12/08 - 08:29 PM: Subject: Converting away from moral nihilism or scepticism	#1
Have you converted away from moral nihilism or scepticism to a different moral philosophy or religion? Do you know anyone who has done so? If yes, please post a description of how you (or whoever) did it. Did you consider yourself a moral nihilist? A moral sceptic? For how long? Please be as accurate and precise as you can. If no, please respond anyway. Do you consider yourself a moral nihilist? A moral sceptic? For how long? Please be as accurate and precise as you can. I am trying to add a poll to gather anecdotal evidence on the incidence of converting out of moral nihilism and scepticism. We can then look at the results and ponder the implications. Thanks!

cadpat_knight
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Posted 07/22/08 - 02:50 PM:	#2
I never liked nihilists. I'm more than a little skeptical at times but I've never met a nihilist who was worth associating with. Nihilsm is the easy way out of making tough choices. Its easier to say that nothing matters than it is to do something worthwhile. I've never met a nihilist who was doing anything with his life, or physically fit, or trustworthy.
Never pass a fault

at
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Posted 07/22/08 - 05:52 PM:	#3
cadpat_knight wrote: Nihilsm is the easy way out of making tough choices. Its easier to say that nothing matters than it is to do something worthwhile. I disagree -choosing to believe there is something is much easier than choosing to believe there isnt. Living nihilism is pretty torturous.

cadpat_knight
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Posted 07/22/08 - 07:27 PM:	#4
Only if you believe you yourself are unimportant too. What's torturous is devoting yourself 100% to a given cause. Nihilists don't have to bother with anything or sacrifice themselves for anything. Would a nihilist ever have to ask himself whether he would sacrifice his life for something he loves? If nothing matters then he obviously doesn't. If something gets too hard, fuck it, it doesn't matter anyway.
Never pass a fault

boagie
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Posted 07/23/08 - 08:32 AM:	#5
cadpat_knight wrote: Only if you believe you yourself are unimportant too. What's torturous is devoting yourself 100% to a given cause. Nihilists don't have to bother with anything or sacrifice themselves for anything. Would a nihilist ever have to ask himself whether he would sacrifice his life for something he loves? If nothing matters then he obviously doesn't. If something gets too hard, fuck it, it doesn't matter anyway. cadpat_knight Actually a nihilistic understanding of the reality of the physical world being utterly meaningless in the absence of a subject, is if understood by non- nihilists, something which should present him with some inner struggles to, if he is awake. I suspect however that I am not a nihilist , certainly not the type non-nihilist tend to define, knowing the above reality about the physcial world simply makes me realize that I must create meaning and value in my own life, it is not going to just be there to gather off the ground. Edited by boagie on 07/23/08 - 08:39 AM
It is a dreamy moving not quite thing, only the illusion is the grasp of the ring.

nosos
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Posted 07/24/08 - 10:38 AM:	#6
I did. I was never a nihilist, I have far-left activist politics although I was very cynical for a while, though I was a philosophical skeptic. I dropped it largely because I came to see how utterly flawed it is as a philosphical position.
"The men of the future will yet fight their way to many a liberty that we do not even miss? - Max Stirner "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - JS Mill "I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid." - Butters

Tobias
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Posted 07/24/08 - 12:22 PM:	#7
I think I could be considered a moral nihilist until say 8 years ago. Never "practicing" though, but believing there was no good philosophical justification for any moral system. I think otherwise now. I think there are good justifications for many moral systems, though some justifications are better thaan others.
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

swstephe
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Posted 07/24/08 - 07:09 PM:	#8
I think there was an old existentialist saying that nobody could be a strict nihilist for more than a few days. As soon as they justify the moral implications eating, drinking or even breathing -- they are at least closet existentialists. But I guess a lot of people stay nihilist because it makes you sound more interesting.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

unenlightened
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Posted 07/24/08 - 08:53 PM:	#9
swstephe wrote: I guess a lot of people stay nihilist because it makes you sound more interesting. I find that hard to believe. I've never felt inclined to let cold logic cloud my judgement - what would be the good of that? As others have said, one cannot actually get through the day without valuing bread over stones as food, and stones over bread as a building material. There really is nothing to be said in favour of nihilism, literally nothing.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Postmodern Beatnik
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 07/25/08 - 08:39 AM:	#10
First, I think we all need to keep in mind that moral nihilism is not the same thing as Nihilism (with a capital "N"). While the OP asks about the former, so far everyone has only been discussing the latter. Moral nihilism is a position within moral philosophy, namely the position that there are no moral truths. While this can be interpreted as either a first or second order statement, it is typically taken as a second order (or metaethical) view. Second order moral nihilists can be either error theorists (e.g. Bentham, Mackie, and Joyce) or non-cognitivists/non-descriptivists (e.g. Ayer, Stevenson, and Hare). None of the distinctive theses endorsed by Nihilists or their Schopenhauerian Pessimist ancestors follow directly from such a view (though many Nihilists happen to also be moral nihilists). By way of example, we might consider Friedrich Nietzsche, who was both a moral nihilist and an intense critic of Nihilism/Pessimism. Moving on... e00 wrote: If no, please respond anyway. Do you consider yourself a moral nihilist? Yes, specifically an error theorist. I believe that positive atomic moral statements are propositions, but that none of them are true. e00 wrote: A moral sceptic? I'm not sure what you mean. Sometimes, "moral skepticism" is used as a synonym for "moral anti-realism" or "moral nihilism" (as in the work of Mackie), and other times it is used specifically to refer to epistemological moral skepticism. Obviously, insofar as the terms "moral nihilism" and "moral skepticism" overlap, both apply to me (the same goes for moral anti-realism, since moral nihilism is a form thereof). If we are talking about epistemological moral skepticism, however, there is another step to take. In the epistemological sense, one is a moral skeptic if one does not believe moral knowledge is possible, but this is a bit vague. Certainly, I do not think that moral propositions can be known to be true, as I believe they are all untrue. I do believe, however, that moral nihilism can be demonstrated, and thus known. As such, I believe knowledge about morality is possible (that is, I don't think moral philosophy is always destined to wind up in aporia). I do not, however, believe that we can know certain things are wrong, since such is never the case. e00 wrote: For how long? Technically, I've been a moral nihilist since early 2003. However, I wasn't really interested in moral philosophy until 2005. I had read a couple of ethics anthologies (neither of which mentioned moral nihilism) prior to 2003, but had never thought too much about them. In August of 2005 is when I became an error theorist, and that's when I really got into ethics. (For those who know me, I had already dropped out of the ecclesiastic life by this point. Moral nihilism is not what ended my association with the Christian church.) You know, it's strange to think that I've only been a moral nihilist for five years. Seems like a whole other lifetime before that!
It is not a mistake to have strong views. The mistake is to have nothing else. --Anthony Weston

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