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Consciousness
Theories as to the origin and meaning of our experience

Consciousness

jokerx241
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Posted 09/28/09 - 06:50 PM: Subject: Consciousness	#1
Consciousness is unexplained in the physical universe. The brain can be studied in depth and emotions/thoughts pinpointed, but the miracle of consciousness is never explained. Consciousness is what we have from the time we wake until the time we sleep, when it loses connection with the outside world. Consciousness is the product created from the reaction caused by the intersection of two separate space time dimensions: the space time dimension of the universe, which is constant and the same for everyone, and the space time dimension of yourself, which is constant though not the same for everyone. Your consciousness, or the way you look at things, changes as the nature of this "intersection" changes, but the things that intersect are always the same. Imagine it like a venn diagram; on one side is the universe and on the other side is yourself. Both space time dimensions. Both constant. The overlap in the middle, where the universe and yourself come together, is your consciousness, that which you experience everyday. You can delve deeper into one side of the venn diagram or the other, deeper into yourself or deeper into the universe. But the ultimate goal, that is Quantum Mind, Mind at Large, Enlightenment, Nirvana, is to overlap your universe and self circles entirely to create one harmonic, flawless circle. This is symbolic of your consciousness expanding so much that all of yourself fuses with all of the universe and both exist together as your collective fully manifested consciousness.

X is10 cellist
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Posted 09/28/09 - 07:16 PM:	#2
jokerx241 wrote: Consciousness is unexplained in the physical universe. The brain can be studied in depth and emotions/thoughts pinpointed, but the miracle of consciousness is never explained. Consciousness is what we have from the time we wake until the time we sleep, when it loses connection with the outside world. Consciousness is the product created from the reaction caused by the intersection of two separate space time dimensions: the space time dimension of the universe, which is constant and the same for everyone, and the space time dimension of yourself, which is constant though not the same for everyone. Your consciousness, or the way you look at things, changes as the nature of this "intersection" changes, but the things that intersect are always the same. Imagine it like a venn diagram; on one side is the universe and on the other side is yourself. Both space time dimensions. Both constant. The overlap in the middle, where the universe and yourself come together, is your consciousness, that which you experience everyday. You can delve deeper into one side of the venn diagram or the other, deeper into yourself or deeper into the universe. But the ultimate goal, that is Quantum Mind, Mind at Large, Enlightenment, Nirvana, is to overlap your universe and self circles entirely to create one harmonic, flawless circle. This is symbolic of your consciousness expanding so much that all of yourself fuses with all of the universe and both exist together as your collective fully manifested consciousness. I don't think you can say we're separate from the universe. Our existence is already within the universe, though just a miniscule fragment of it. I'm not sure what question you're asking us, but I'll ask you this because I'm curious myself: how, in your opinion are supposed to "overlap" ourselves, in your words, with the universe?

jokerx241
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Posted 09/28/09 - 07:22 PM: Subject: yourself and the universe	#3
you do it each and everyday when you are awake and able to view, see, hear, smell and experience the universe. You are not the universe. Your body might be part of it but the part of you that cannot be seen, heard, perceived or described in anyway, that which is you, is not part of this universe. What you experience everyday is a mixing of the two. You are not your body. You are the thing that controls your body. The energy. The presence. This cannot be discovered through any physical or scientific means. This is the you that is not part of the universe, that has become accustomed to the universe and experiences it. Most people define themselves through their consciousness so i can see where the confusion is but your consciousness is a mixing of yourself and the universe. You are not the universe. Any word used to describe yourself is a word of the universe and therefore not you.

swstephe
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Posted 09/28/09 - 08:34 PM:	#4
jokerx241 wrote: Consciousness is unexplained in the physical universe. The brain can be studied in depth and emotions/thoughts pinpointed, but the miracle of consciousness is never explained. Consciousness is what we have from the time we wake until the time we sleep, when it loses connection with the outside world. Consciousness Explained! It is an interesting book, it says that -- until now -- we have had a very poor understanding of what we are most intimately aware, but the latest cognitive psychology experiments are giving us a pretty good view of what it is and how it works. jokerx241 wrote: Consciousness is the product created from the reaction caused by the intersection of two separate space time dimensions: the space time dimension of the universe, which is constant and the same for everyone, and the space time dimension of yourself, which is constant though not the same for everyone. Your consciousness, or the way you look at things, changes as the nature of this "intersection" changes, but the things that intersect are always the same. Imagine it like a venn diagram; on one side is the universe and on the other side is yourself. Both space time dimensions. Both constant. The overlap in the middle, where the universe and yourself come together, is your consciousness, that which you experience everyday. You can delve deeper into one side of the venn diagram or the other, deeper into yourself or deeper into the universe. But the ultimate goal, that is Quantum Mind, Mind at Large, Enlightenment, Nirvana, is to overlap your universe and self circles entirely to create one harmonic, flawless circle. This is symbolic of your consciousness expanding so much that all of yourself fuses with all of the universe and both exist together as your collective fully manifested consciousness. The definition is the "universe", is "everything that exists". So if you are saying that our consciousness doesn't exist, I heartily agree -- it is a symbolic metaphor from some pretty basic physical processes. I think, however, you are trying to make an "appeal to ignorance", saying that since we don't understand something, it must be in some ethereal outer world. The problem is that appeal to ignorance can't give any proof. It is just a form of preaching. You are giving one of a vast range of possible symbolic metaphors for how to deal with consciousness without evidence.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

jokerx241
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Posted 09/29/09 - 07:18 AM: Subject: again	#5
The evidence of consciousness is what you experience everyday. Consciousness is your experience, the part of the universe you are aware of. That awareness is not part of the universe. The universe can be studied and observed, broken down to atomic molecules. But no matter what, we cannot find the miracle, the energy of consciousness. You are not your molecules that make up your body and brain. You are the energy that controls these molecules. Consciousness is the mixing of this countrolling entinity with the universe, which is an infinite series of sensory perceptions. Consciousness is like the power to a videogame. You are the videogames controller. When the controller is inactive and turned off, the character doesn't exist. You must turn the game on and pick up the controller. This is symbolic of you waking up every morning and starting your day. Consciousness is the energy that allows you to absorb sensory perceptions, to manifest as a life form and if you are reading this therefore a human. Your consciousness could have very well manifested in a dog or a tree or a blade of grass. Their consciousness is just as powerful and complex as ours, even if the form their consciousness uses is not.

mway
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Posted 09/29/09 - 05:12 PM:	#6
jokerx241 wrote: The evidence of consciousness is what you experience everyday. Consciousness is your experience, the part of the universe you are aware of. That awareness is not part of the universe. Firstly that sentence seems a bit contradictory. How can consciousness be both your experience and not your awareness? Can you have awareness without experience? jokerx241 wrote: The universe can be studied and observed, broken down to atomic molecules. But no matter what, we cannot find the miracle, the energy of consciousness. You are not your molecules that make up your body and brain. You are the energy that controls these molecules. If we cannot find your so-called "miracle energy of consciousness" or your so-called "molecule controlling energy", then how do you know it exists? Another contradiction. jokerx241 wrote: Consciousness is the mixing of this countrolling entinity with the universe, which is an infinite series of sensory perceptions. Consciousness is like the power to a videogame. You are the videogames controller. When the controller is inactive and turned off, the character doesn't exist. You must turn the game on and pick up the controller. This is symbolic of you waking up every morning and starting your day. This is not a very strong analogy. Firstly you say we are the video games' power, then you say we are the controller? Which one? I also don't turn myself on (like a video game) every morning. jokerx241 wrote: Consciousness is the energy that allows you to absorb sensory perceptions, to manifest as a life form and if you are reading this therefore a human. Your consciousness could have very well manifested in a dog or a tree or a blade of grass. Their consciousness is just as powerful and complex as ours, even if the form their consciousness uses is not. Just more blind assertions. You seem very confident in your beliefs about consciousness, and yet (correct me if I am wrong), I have a strange suspicion you no nothing of neuroscience. Where did your beliefs come from? Was any scientific method used to gather these beliefs? Just because you can run, it doesn't make you an olympian. The same goes for consciousness.
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

Desidude666
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Posted 09/29/09 - 07:17 PM:	#7
I suggest the following: 1. Consciousness is not a part of an unconscious universe. 2. Man is not part of the universe, rather he is a part of Nature. 3. As the universe does not interact with Man, the importance of a conscious Man is not of any concern to a mechanistic universe. 4. Nature is also not conscious, and is hostile to consciousness, and thus is hostile to the conscious Man. 5. Consciousness has no value in an unconscious Existence. I think that answers to most of what is up there, but I don't believe in Nirvana or that point of enlightenment. Knowledge doesn't just come in a split of a second.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

litkey
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Posted 09/30/09 - 02:48 AM:	#8
Consciousness is what you think - right? Of course i'm using "think" in the sense that "you are always thinking" - your brain, being "alive". However, the quality of Consciousness depends on whether you own the means of production, or whether your boss does. ...
That's what tyrants get! - John Wilkes Booth “This is an impressive crowd: the Have's and Have-more's. Some people call you the elites. I call you my base.” -Bush Something cannot come from nothing.

stax
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Posted 09/30/09 - 04:23 AM:	#9
Well, I'm going to treat consciousness as the mind. As they both do not physically exist; neither are linked directly to part(s) of the brain, and neither can be directly observed. Therefore consciousness is actually transcendent of reality, it exists, but in a way that is not physically so; the mind affects reality, and gets affected by reality- but it supervenes physical reality. The mind/consciousness is a part of the universe, it is contingent on the brain to facilitate its function, and that relies on the universe to house its matter- along with all other matter. So the mind is actually linked to the brain, but no certain part of the brain; if I were to cut a portion of my frontal lobe, I'd still have a mind, and retain consciousness (look into Phinneas Gauge). So it is fallacious to say that the mind exists independent of the universe, because if the universe did not exist, all contingencies of it wouldn't either- including the brain and therefore, the mind. I do not understand your position regarding that Venn Diagram analogy, but it seems very fallible to me, if you allow me to ask a few questions: -With that are you proposing that humans, in themselves house spacetime, that is independent of the universe? -Consciousness does not expand, it is contingent on the brain- so how does one's consciousness expand? Edited by stax on 09/30/09 - 04:31 AM
"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." Arthur Schopenhauer "To convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth." Ludwig Wittgenstein "Philosophy is like trying to open a safe with a combination lock: each little adjustment of the dials seems to achieve nothing, only when everything is in place does the door open." Ludwig Wittgenstein

mway
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Posted 09/30/09 - 03:11 PM:	#10
stax wrote: Well, I'm going to treat consciousness as the mind. As they both do not physically exist; neither are linked directly to part(s) of the brain, and neither can be directly observed. Therefore consciousness is actually transcendent of reality, it exists, but in a way that is not physically so; the mind affects reality, and gets affected by reality- but it supervenes physical reality. Would you describe computer software in exactly the same way?
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

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