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Competition

e-head
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Posted 05/12/09 - 07:34 AM: Subject: Competition	#1
I was hanging out with my girlfriends "alternative" friends the other day when I had an interesting thought... even though they claim to have rejected societies materialistic and careerist path, they themselves are every bit as competitive as anyone else. Instead of competing via materialism, they simply compete in other areas. These may include artistic competition, musicianship, or knowledge and insight of liberal ideology, e.g. Another category of competition that is common among young alternative types in experience itself. This path was first tread by the beats, such as Jack Kerouac, though it probably goes back even further to the original migrant Bohemians living in Paris. This sort of competition is over the accumulation of crazy, unique experiences. In this competitive arena a trip to Bolivia might score highly, particularly if you get drunk with some Bolivians and wake up in a strange place in the morning. We ourselves compete on this forum, in knowledge of philosophical subjects, or in how eloquently we can argue. There are of course the obvious arenas for competition, the ones endorsed by our society, such as sports, money, career and social prestige, and sex (this ones not always endorsed!). Later in the week I ran into a friend at the grocery store, where she was working. When I asked her about school she immediately went into apologetic and awkward mode, informing she was going to try and finish after she had saved up some money. She felt badly because she feels she has failed in this one area of competition. I wanted to tell her it was okay. I began to think that virtually every facet of life is characterized by competition, every hobby, every pursuit, every possibly social group, however alternative. The only thing that changes is the ruler, the measuring stick they use, and the area they are competing in. They may choose to value something different, but they invariably compete. I'm convinced even Buddhist monks must compete with each other to see who is the most "monkish". Indeed, I found a meditation forum where the practitioners appear to all be in heated competition over techniques and length of time they have been meditating. It seems to me all this competition, which invariable entails judging oneself against various standards and other people, has to be the source of so much misery. Probably most suicides are done by people who have simply judged themselves poorly. Still, I can't help thinking that if we didn't compete at all, we might feel like we were missing something vital in our lives. I'm not convinced at all this is the path to happiness. Just look at the Big Lebowski. So, my question is... Is competition simply unavoidable? If so, do you think the key to happiness may lie in trying to find the right balance of competition? Or perhaps the right attitude towards it? Edited by e-head on 05/12/09 - 07:39 AM

unenlightened
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Posted 05/12/09 - 10:54 AM:	#2
e-head wrote: We ourselves compete on this forum... Well, 'all of the people some of the time'. There is certainly a fair bit of intellectual comparing of dicks goes on here, but there are other more interesting things too. I think it is perfectly possible to be serious, and wanting to learn to think and express oneself well, without endlessly comparing one's performance with others. We are unfortunately taught to do this in school, and the 'better' the school, the more urgently it is taught that nothing one does is good in itself but only by comparison with another. It becomes a habit, which requires great self-awareness to see in operation in oneself. It is such an addiction that some people will make a competition of drinking or pissing or growing their fingernails. So shall I give you a percentage mark for your post? Shall you be like Banno and see if you can get to a hundred posts on your thread, or shall we just try to talk sensibly together and see if we can learn something from each other? (I have only been meditating myself for 13 billion years, so I am in no position to compete on that front. )
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Cadrache
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Posted 05/12/09 - 11:37 AM:	#3
Would competition exist if you were the only person left alive? An alternate reference to the friend at a grocery store is to question how other people; like her family behaved when she told them that plans did not go they way she wanted.
Words the wiser become the name you do not know. - Some guy with a surname Blanchard. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Mike H
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Posted 05/13/09 - 11:18 PM:	#4
Perhaps more philosophically oriented people tend to compete with themselves, rather than others. Couldn't the quest for knowledge be characterized as a competition with the limitations of your own mind? I think that competition is central to having fun, in nearly all aspects of life. Why do you think competition is such a central element in nearly all games? Whenever people compete in anything, they are making a game out of the situation. Sometimes this has bad consequences - for example, people on Wall Street playing with other people's money. But I think that society should acknowledge people's need for competition, and encourage it to develop in healthy and fair ways. When they ban competition, people will find an illegal or unconstructive way to compete. For example, imagine a factory where everyone is forced to be maximally efficient. Then without a doubt, the workers will compete to see who can get away with the least work.

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 05/14/09 - 11:50 PM:	#5
THE "DUDE" ABIDES. Nice to know. We can go on and on about who is the a walking contridiction and who is now famed for being humble. But where is this going? I have been in professional Sports for nearly 24 years now. This comment alone could be interpretated as making myself to "Quarterback" of the Philosophy Forums. Bullshit! (Paul is webmaster!) It is what it is. I'm about to switch from professional cycling to professional baseball. Why? I need the competition? At the age of 44? Nah! It's something to do and it's fun. I'm finding my way in life. Sports is not only driven by competition. Athletes are not only obcessed with beating their opponents. Competition is not the only and driving factor for many athletes. For some, it is not a factor at all. They do strive to win. That is their job. The just enjoy the sport and enjoy life. If you don't win, quite often it is the assumption that one had not done 100% of what was possible rather than the losing which angers or frustrates an athlete. Spectators see wins and loses much more that athletes. I feel that we may all too often missunderstand the intention of another person. I am not willing to say no one acts out of pure competition, but I cannot see that competition is the so-called way to happieness for everyone, nor is it the belief that the one who dies with the most toys wins. As far as I can remember, didn't the "Dude" make it into the semi-finals in bowling? Did the "Dude" strive to win and compete or just do his best? At times you take it as it comes. Othertimes you try at times to make a difference. There is the option to,at times, just to get out of the way. Is competition unavoidable? It depends on how and who is saying it is and isn't. Why not just say "comformity" is unavoidable? Or perhaps "competitive conformity" or "conformist competition"? Jason Belmonte!!! Worth a google (also on youtube)! He is the non-conformist professional bowler, who bowls with two hands. The only professional bowler who bowls with two hands. 39 perfect games and won a lot in his career. Ty Cobb's split hand batting grip? Rick Barry's two hand "grannie style" freethrows? Now I'm dealing with conformity rather than competition. Sorry... Do the people who attempt to be something different out of competition? The "alternative" friends are "alternative" to what? They are conforming to non-conformity? They are in competition of non-competitiveness? Maybe they are just finding their way in life? Half-baked ideas, but I'm not here to win. Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS Jerry Sings! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Yeah WHATEVER! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg Mayor of Simpleton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Da9sc6YDBo Atheism is a unique "-ism": followers are not bound by a shared form of belief in, but rather a shared form of disbelief in. - MOS

blitzclub
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Posted 05/26/09 - 01:05 PM:	#6
No, only those who want to compete with eachother compete. You can be competing with someone while the other person is just sitting there lazily having a great time. I think it has alot to do with jelousy, if you see someone who has it all and you dont, you go into compete mode. good thoughts. shawn.

wuliheron
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Posted 05/27/09 - 12:20 AM:	#7
The issue is not so much competition, as contention. It is possible to have a friendly competition in which nobody really cares who wins and the process itself of interacting is considered the reward. Especially in hierarchal groups contention can lead to contentious rebellion. Children rebel against their parents' forcing their values upon them and, in the process, retain their parents' core value of fighting to assert their values. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in which you become what you fear or hate the most.

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 05/29/09 - 07:18 AM:	#8
"The issue is not so much competition, as contention. It is possible to have a friendly competition in which nobody really cares who wins and the process itself of interacting is considered the reward." Thanks!!! This is my reason for pursuing a career in sports and why I am continuing. It has sort of an oddball, "Cogito, ego sum" ring to it or maybe more the road leading to being more important than the destination. I hear this from many of the "long term" athletes. Great Point!!! Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS Jerry Sings! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Yeah WHATEVER! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg Mayor of Simpleton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Da9sc6YDBo Atheism is a unique "-ism": followers are not bound by a shared form of belief in, but rather a shared form of disbelief in. - MOS

Tenkamuteki
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Posted 07/10/09 - 10:44 PM:	#9
competition=growth. Without growth a system becomes stagnant. Stagnation=death and the game is done. You figure Darwin's theroy is based on competition so its much more then a human condition.

Banno
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Posted 07/10/09 - 11:01 PM:	#10
Eight posts out of eight views - nice.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

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