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Question about the thread "Why is homosexuality shunned by so many?"

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Angra Mainyu
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Posted 09/11/09 - 09:27 AM: Subject: Closed thread.	#1
Hello, I'd like to ask why this thread has been locked, and whether that is permanent. The reason is that my opponent in that thread has replied to one of my posts, and I want to reply to that (else, his tactic of having the last word works), but I'm unable to do so. Thank you,

unenlightened
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Posted 09/11/09 - 11:37 AM:	#2
Hi. I closed the thread. Actually everyone loses the argument as the thread is completely unreadable, and way off topic. It may be reopened when tempers have cooled and some drastic pruning has taken place. There again no one may be interested to do the work of editing it, in which case it will probably remain closed, if it isn't deleted. But I will see what the others make of it, it's a rare event as far as I know, to close down a debate. The foolish idea that there is some profit in having the last word, is rather the attitude that makes the thread so pathetically appalling. Please curb the egoism, and consider the poor reader, who can generally remember even the post before the post before last, as long as it actually says something vaguely interesting.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

ciceronianus
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Posted 09/11/09 - 11:48 AM:	#3
It was getting very odd. I would peak in now and then and stare, in wild surmise, for a time. I think you acquitted yourself quite well, though, Angra Mainyu, from what I could see. But I think there was nothing left to be said.
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."--C.S. Peirce "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it."--Marcus Tullius Cicero "Philosophy recovers itself when it ceases to be a device for dealing with the problems of philosophers and becomes a method, cultivated by philosophers, for dealing with the problems of men."--John Dewey

Angra Mainyu
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Posted 09/11/09 - 09:02 PM:	#4
unenlightened wrote: Hi. I closed the thread. Actually everyone loses the argument as the thread is completely unreadable, and way off topic. It may be reopened when tempers have cooled and some drastic pruning has taken place. There again no one may be interested to do the work of editing it, in which case it will probably remain closed, if it isn't deleted. But I will see what the others make of it, it's a rare event as far as I know, to close down a debate. The foolish idea that there is some profit in having the last word, is rather the attitude that makes the thread so pathetically appalling. Please curb the egoism, and consider the poor reader, who can generally remember even the post before the post before last, as long as it actually says something vaguely interesting. Hi, Thanks for the reply. I wish the idea were foolish, but I think there is a rationale behind it, especially when a thread becomes too long an difficult to read due to the tactics employed in it. In cases like that (i.e, if the thread becomes so convoluted that it's almost unreadable, and has hundreds of posts), casual readers (who may just lurk the forums once in a while, or even more or less permanent lurkers who aren't following the thread and take a look later) aren't likely to read the whole thing, let alone in detail. However, in my experience, there are people who will take a look at the first few posts, or at the last couple of posts, or both. In addition, there are readers who read the whole thread cursorily, but given that the thread is so long, and so many points are ignored, changed, etc., they end up missing important replies - not their fault, but in my experience, this does happen quite often. Someone who has the last word in a thread like might confuse those casual readers and get them to agree to their position, or at least confuse people about the views expressed by the other party. That's the reason why, when I see my opponent is using certain debate tactics, my counter tactic (the only one more or less effective counter tactic I'm familiar with, actually) basically consists of the following two points - which require a lot of time and effort, but it's the only way I know of, if not neutralizing, at least minimizing the impact of such tactics: i) Reply to every single point he makes. If he repeats the same points hundreds of times, then the same replies are repeated similarly. If he attributes to me a position I don't hold n times (despite my n-1 clarifications), then I clarify my position n times. If he refuses to address my points while accusing me of not addressing his, I clarify my points and make them again, while addressing his points as many times as it takes. If he repeats the pattern, so do I, and so on. This might take hundreds of posts, or more, but the alternative is to actually let the tactics in question have a good chance of success, at least in my experience. ii) Never allow him to have the last word, no matter how long that takes. If he does, he can "win" in the sense of "more likely to convince readers of the last part of the thread" and/or confuse casual readers, even if his actual arguments were debunked repeatedly throughout the thread. The closure of the thread prevents me from using ii), and in practice, could result in my "losing" (in the sense explained above), not because of the arguments presented, but because I had the bad luck that the thread was closed when the latest post in the exchange was not mine, but my opponent's. That said, I can understand the difficulty for the readers, and for the moderators, so I do understand why you closed it. However, I'll respectfully suggest considering the effect this sudden closure might have on casual readers of the thread - or rather, of the first/last couple of posts of the thread, unless you think that casual readers aren't common on these boards, or that all lurkers are very knowledgeable and used to deciphering obscure posts. But even if these boards have very knowledgeable casual lurkers for the most part, a thread like that can be a complication for everyone who (reasonably) isn't willing or capable of dedicating so much time to read it in detail and figure out who's right. ciceronianus wrote: It was getting very odd. I would peak in now and then and stare, in wild surmise, for a time. I think you acquitted yourself quite well, though, Angra Mainyu, from what I could see. But I think there was nothing left to be said. Thanks, and I would agree there was nothing more to be said that wasn't clear to someone who reads the thread entirely. But I still wanted to reply to the latest reply to my post, since it might confuse people - i.e., there wasn't anything left to say as long as people read the whole thing, but if they don't, there was something I wanted to say to reduce the risk that casual readers (like lurkers that come and go, and even more or less permanent ones) would get a very mistaken impression of what I'm saying, and of what my opponent produced. Edited by Angra Mainyu on 09/11/09 - 09:24 PM

keda
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Posted 09/11/09 - 10:58 PM:	#5
I was considering adding another reply as well since there are a few things I've forgot to mention in my last post and I still want to clarify my position, for those who like to know. I would like to know in case the decision is made to delete the thread, whether it could be notified before its done and give us a little time so that we can salvage the important parts of the thread. I spent a lot of time trying to clarify my position and would consider it a big waste of time if it was to be deleted in short.
All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer

keda
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Posted 09/11/09 - 11:17 PM:	#6
Never mind about the delay, I've saved the whole thread.
All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer

unenlightened
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Posted 09/12/09 - 12:20 AM:	#7
I strongly recommend that you do not continue the debate on this thread. Instead, feel free to delete on your own initiative, any posts or part posts of your own that upon reflection, make little or no contribution to philosophical understanding.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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