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Choice
What makes an action voluntary?

Choice

Absolutely Relative
[Aspiring] Stoic.

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Posted 04/28/08 - 10:43 AM: Subject: Choice	#1
Involuntary actions are amoral. Your heart beating is not a moral act, nor is it immoral. It simply beats. Where do we draw the line between voluntary action (subject to morality) and involuntary action (not subject to morality)? [to be fair I'll answer my own questions first] When a normally deliberate action is taken without conscious thought because of habit (picking up a phone, taking the 3rd exit on the freeway) is it voluntary? [no, but forming the habit is] When an action is taken under direct threat of violence (the always cliche gun to the head) is it voluntary? [yes] When the action is taken under the influence of mind-altering drugs (alcohol, LSD) is it voluntary? [no] What if the drugs were taken with full knowledge of their effects? [yes] Can an action be both voluntary and involuntary (such as when not all the effects of said action can or should be known)? [yes] What about orders when in a volunteer military? [yes] What about orders when in a conscript military? [yes] What about edicts from your religion? [not a clue]
_____________________ It is what it is.

unenlightened
Mysteriosopher

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Posted 04/28/08 - 11:44 AM:	#2
Apart from a few off the wall philosophers, no one proclaims that one ought to do things one is already inclined to do. 'Eat up your greens,' mother says, but she doesn't need to say 'eat up your ice cream.' Morality only comes into play when there is a conflict, and choice is always conflict. Fast car, or cheap car? Well both obviously, but if I cannot have both, then I have to choose. Do what I say, or be shot in the head - the first choice. Does one's moral freedom consist in the necessity of choice? I would prefer to be free from the conflict, but yes, of course there are actions worse than death. I wonder where you are going with this, towards a system of justice? Are you justifying yourself or the world?
_____________________ The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Absolutely Relative
[Aspiring] Stoic.

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Posted 04/28/08 - 12:24 PM:	#3
unenlightened wrote: Apart from a few off the wall philosophers, no one proclaims that one ought to do things one is already inclined to do. 'Eat up your greens,' mother says, but she doesn't need to say 'eat up your ice cream.' Morality only comes into play when there is a conflict, and choice is always conflict. Fast car, or cheap car? Well both obviously, but if I cannot have both, then I have to choose. I disagree. To ignore the morality of everyday choices is to shirk several easy ways to lead a more moral life. Eating greens is probably a moral choice (gaining nutrition, becoming healthy, leading to a more productive member of society). Eating ice cream is more morally vague. If you are on a diet because your unhealthy life style is endangering your life, then eating the ice cream is obviously immoral. Conflict certainly underscores where there is a difficult choice but it is not necessary to have morality. Everyday I choose to brush my teeth. It is an easy choice to make and has no conflict, I enjoy brushing my teeth and it is healthy. the lack of conflict does not make brushing my teeth an amoral act. Not brushing my teeth would certainly be an immoral act. Thus, brushing my teeth is moral. I am not saying every small daily action must be broken down and analyzed for its moral qualities, but each one has a small impact on a moral life, an impact that is repeated thousands of times a year. As to justifying myself/the world, I have no such aims, certainly not to someone I do not know and who does not know me. The purpose for my postulations is for me to learn from the debate which (hopefully) ensues. I use you as you would use me. So long as there is mutual benefit we, who have no other connection other than this utility, form something of a society.
_____________________ It is what it is.

keda
dumbo

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Posted 04/28/08 - 12:28 PM:	#4
One could ask if there is really a choice between a fast car or a cheap car, or if its just a question of calculating which car is more valuable for your purposes. In a wider sense we call it choice loosely, but it isn't really out of free will. Similarly we make also a distinction between mandatory and voluntary, but in this case it has not got to do with free will either. Free will only comes into play when there is something you should or shouldn't do, and it comes in conflicts with what you want, as unenlightened correctly points out.
_____________________ Free Europe Now The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -Benjamin Franklin If my sons did not want wars, there would be none - Gutle Rothschild It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes - Josef Stalin Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace - Bob Dylan A prolonged peace favours the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy, and tends to degrade the character of the nation. - Immanuel Kant

iSerpent.
Initiate

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Posted 05/07/08 - 01:04 PM:	#5
So... Just as you descibed that the heartbeat is both a moral and immoral action, are you trying to describe human nature/instinct versus thinking it out, or forming a habit out of it...? I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. Maybe it's just me~
_____________________ \|. Sincerely; Angel in Jeans .\|

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