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Berkeley Question

Wolfman
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Posted 08/18/09 - 01:28 PM:	#21
keving wrote: I still feel like I'm a little bit unclear as to what Berkeley is advancing. When he says that God imprints His ideas on our senses so that we're directly aware of objects (which would consist of "ideas" in our minds), wouldn't that be more or less like experiencing a dream, with God as the origin and cause of it? That is precisely correct. The existence of sensible objects are akin to objects in dreams or hallucinations. All perceptual experiences, Berkeley would maintain, are caused and coordinated by God, i.e., the source from which our collective reality derives.
"That which is done out of love is always beyond good and evil" - Nietzsche "Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and pursuit, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim." - Aristotle "It is better to do one's own duty, however defective it may be, than to follow the duty of another, however well one may perform it. He who does his duty as his own nature reveals it, never sins." - Lao Tzu "Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play." - Kant

Willowz
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Posted 08/18/09 - 01:47 PM:	#22
Yes but people do wake up from dreams and what then?
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

keving
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Posted 08/18/09 - 06:04 PM:	#23
Okay, so let me get this straight. What we call reality exists in the mind of God. What God perceives would not be called "matter" because it is only an "idea" in His mind. God's ideas in their totality compose reality as we know it. God impresses these ideas on our senses. As a result, what we see are only ideas of objects in our minds that have no relation at all to material objects. It would be like living in, and perceiving directly via experience, God's dream. Am I on the right track?

Wolfman
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Posted 08/18/09 - 06:56 PM:	#24
keving wrote: Okay, so let me get this straight. What we call reality exists in the mind of God. What God perceives would not be called "matter" because it is only an "idea" in His mind. God's ideas in their totality compose reality as we know it. God impresses these ideas on our senses. As a result, what we see are only ideas of objects in our minds that have no relation at all to material objects. It would be like living in, and perceiving directly via experience, God's dream. Am I on the right track? That is correct. Esse est percipi - the existence of things consists of their being perceived. However, Berkeley also asserts that the world is a real, continuous series of things (not in the objective sense). This is because these things are also perceived by God, albeit in a different fashion. Science is then tasked to uncover accurate information about the ideas in God's mind. In addition, Berkeley maintained that some knowledge does not derive from sensory perception, rather from notions - which, at the most basic level, consists of self-awareness, and eventually, awareness of the infinite spirit, i.e., God. According to Berkeley, we can arrive at true knowledge about real things, but this is dependent upon how accomplished we are at ordering his ideas.
"That which is done out of love is always beyond good and evil" - Nietzsche "Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and pursuit, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim." - Aristotle "It is better to do one's own duty, however defective it may be, than to follow the duty of another, however well one may perform it. He who does his duty as his own nature reveals it, never sins." - Lao Tzu "Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play." - Kant

keving
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Posted 08/18/09 - 08:57 PM:	#25
One of the things that bothers me about this conclusion are the objects of God's perception. If they are not material in nature, besides calling them "ideas," what are they exactly? Is this the task of science, to uncover the mysteries behind these ideas? Also, it would appear that God brought things into existence in His mind when He created the universe. Quite strange if you ask me. Unfortunately, I have more questions than answers, but then again, it came as no surprise.

Wolfman
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Posted 08/18/09 - 11:09 PM:	#26
keving wrote: One of the things that bothers me about this conclusion are the objects of God's perception. If they are not material in nature, besides calling them "ideas," what are they exactly? They are simply ideas. However, I should point out that Berkeley thinks God can have no wrong ideas, while man is capable of having two sorts of ideas: involuntary, i.e., vivid ideas of real things (put in our minds by God), and voluntary, i.e., ideas conjured up by the imagination which do not always accord with reality. Thus it is important that we restrict our imagination to the limits of our faculty of understanding, or we might concede to wrong ideas. keving wrote: Is this the task of science, to uncover the mysteries behind these ideas? According to Berkeley, man utilizes the sciences to inquire into the order and relation of ideas in God's mind. keving wrote: Also, it would appear that God brought things into existence in His mind when He created the universe. Quite strange if you ask me. You would not be alone with this sentiment: "If we admit a thing so extraordinary as the creation of this world, it should seem that we admit something strange, and odd, and new to human apprehension, beyond any other miracle whatsoever." - George Berkeley.
"That which is done out of love is always beyond good and evil" - Nietzsche "Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and pursuit, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim." - Aristotle "It is better to do one's own duty, however defective it may be, than to follow the duty of another, however well one may perform it. He who does his duty as his own nature reveals it, never sins." - Lao Tzu "Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play." - Kant

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